Did This Officer Act Poorly.. or Properly .. Opinions?

[BigBear]

Thane... it's going to be fun having you on here. Good stuff.

[GreenScoutII]

Ok, my take on this is that this particular officer was in the wrong. I don't believe it was an instance of a police officer being heavy handed, but rather one of the officer being ignorant. Not stupid, just ignorant. I can understand why the officer might have believed disarming this individual was the prudent thing to do, but she was still in the wrong.

I have grave concern over the increasing militarization of so many of our police departments. I do see a need for SWAT teams and the like for dealing with some types of situations and offenders, but these should be the exception and not the rule. A citizen with a valid CCW obviously has undergone an extensive criminal background check (blatently unconstitutional, but thats a topic for another thread), and as such, is obviously not a danger to the officer.

One thought I had about this situation is that this officer deprived the citizen of his constitutional right to keep and bear arms without due process of law (however briefly). Is she not guilty of violating his civil rights?

[TFOGGER]

This also reminds me of Big Bear's story a little. The facts, a crime occured, he legally drew his weapon, the police arrived and detained everyone until things can get figured out. It's called a rapidly evolving situation and sometimes good guys get handcuffed for a few moments.

The big differences: The man had not drawn his weapon, he merely gave her the courtesy of informing her, in the most nonthreatening way possible. There was another uniformed, armed guard there to verify his identity and right to be there. He did not have the alleged perps at gunpoint, in fact they had already fled the scene(although she was waiting for backup to make certain of that fact). The fact that he was cuffed and disarmed while she was uncertain of the presence or absence of the perps, thereby placing him in an unknown amount of potential danger while defenseless, is poor judgment at best. As soon as she disarmed him, she became responsibly for his safety, which she was apparently not capable of guaranteeing. Also, placing the weapon in a remote location without supervision was careless, not to mention a little chickenshit. The correct way to handle that would have been to drop the magazine, verify that the chamber was not loaded, and hand it back to him. I find it hard to believe that a patrol officer in a major police department would lack the basic firearms knowledge necessary to render a GLOCK, of all possible pistols, safe.

[BigBear]

If we are bringing what happened to me in the story, I stand by the actions the cops did to me. They were very professional. Yes I was disarmed, yes I was handcuffed briefly, but I did draw down on some idiots and it was to be expected. I would imagine that a cop does not want to worry about being shot by a citizen on a call no matter how well meaning said citizen may be. On the other hand, I do agree that in this threads story, the female officer did do things a little weird...

[TFOGGER]

Agreed. They came on a situation where you were holding unknown individuals at gunpoint, and it made sense to disarm you until they got everyone sorted out. Had you called them to investigate a break in at your apartment, and informed them that you had your CCW permit and were armed, would you feel the same way about being disarmed and cuffed?

[BigBear]

Neg. Point made, lol.

[KevDen2005]

The big differences: The man had not drawn his weapon, he merely gave her the courtesy of informing her, in the most nonthreatening way possible. There was another uniformed, armed guard there to verify his identity and right to be there. He did not have the alleged perps at gunpoint, in fact they had already fled the scene(although she was waiting for backup to make certain of that fact). The fact that he was cuffed and disarmed while she was uncertain of the presence or absence of the perps, thereby placing him in an unknown amount of potential danger while defenseless, is poor judgment at best. As soon as she disarmed him, she became responsibly for his safety, which she was apparently not capable of guaranteeing. Also, placing the weapon in a remote location without supervision was careless, not to mention a little chickenshit. The correct way to handle that would have been to drop the magazine, verify that the chamber was not loaded, and hand it back to him. I find it hard to believe that a patrol officer in a major police department would lack the basic firearms knowledge necessary to render a GLOCK, of all possible pistols, safe.

Well TFogger, I have to say I am very aware of the difference...I also have to say that If it were me, the handcuffing part is questionable. I wasn't there and I don't know what the average crime rate is for the area. I also don't know what the suspects look like, or the owner looks like for that matter. Criminals are only criminals until they get caught, so this guy turned out to be a law abiding citizen. The officer had no way of knowing that coming on scene. I am certainly not going to let an unknown person stay armed while I am trying to investigate a crime.

Unloading a pistol and handing it back to a person is not rendering it safe.

[BigBear]

Unloading a pistol and handing it back to a person is not rendering it safe.

hehe, especially when we carry more than 1 mag. HAHA.

[Bitter Clinger]

Well, not being a ccw holder (yet), i probably shouldnt comment or speculate. But the way i see it she was not out of line to want to ensure her saftey. After all she had no idea what the BG's looked like or if they were still at the crime scene. However, a little bit of "elementary" may have helped her out here. The article states that the security guard introduced the officer to the victim. That says to me he knows him and knows he is the GG. But did the officer know the SG? Probably not. I do think that cuffing him, however briefly, in this particular situation, was a bit uncalled for. She could have simply asked for him to remain by her cruiser and to keep his hands where she could see them, even go as far as disarming him and not cuff him would have been acceptable I would think.

[Irving]

Thane, you seem to have completely forgotten about the existence of lawyers. Have you put much thought to how we are supposed to jump back nearly 150 years in time to a process that worked back when specialization and litigation were nearly non-existent in relation to the individual?


Also, I would like to hear from the LEO's on here about whether that guy did the correct thing, or even had any obligation to, by telling the officer he was armed.

I've been pulled over while carrying, and I don't say anything unless asked directly about it, or asked to step out of the vehicle. I feel like an equally whiny article could be written about this guy's actions as well. Just because a cop is present, doesn't mean you should run up and tell them you are armed. I don't understand that mind set.