Biometric work card

[Jumpstart]

I would submit that one could tie ALL of our domestic ills to illegal aliens and illegal immigration as the driving cause. Anyone wanna play? Education cost? Health care costs? Enviromental impact? Gang violence? Teen pregnancy? Prisons systems?

[Jumpstart]

I COMPLETELY disagree. Have you ever driven around this state? When I first moved here, I was absolutely AMAZED that you can go for MILES down the highway and see absolutely nothing but empty land.

The more people that are here, the more jobs there are. We are almost entirely a service economy -- and while that's bad, it makes this point all the more apparent.

We need everyone we can get. We need to invest in education for natural born citizens and native Americans alike. This is an investment in the true sense of the word! We put money in, and down the road we get more money out.

Too many people make assumptions that seem logical at first glance when it comes to issues like this.

If you want to make rum runners illegal, make rum legal. Worked then, it works now.

If you want to make border hoppers illegal, make immigration legal.

Illegal immigration/immigration sure is working out well for California isn't it? Economically, culturally and enviromentally. (insert sarcasm) So if we need everyone we can get, shouldn't we be running ships to India, China and Africa and just loading up the country? Imagine what a "cultral melting pot" (insert eye roll and a reminder we aren't in the 19th century any more) utopia we would have here in the USA.(more sarcasm) Illegal aliens and illegal immigration cost the USA multi-millions/billions... after they pay a pittance in taxes. Now U.S. citizens have to get a national id card?
Immigration is legal, so is rum. Get a freakin clue dude.

[theGinsue]

immigration is one of the problems in the US. make it harder to get in, for the ones that do get in they need to show proof they are doing something positive for the country or they get booted. I work with several immigrants who have gone through the process, and while tough...that is the price to pay.

no more "if you are born here you are a US citizen" bullshit. Parents need to be US citizens or the same thing will apply for their children. too many border jumpers get a safe haven here because of that.

huge crackdown on immigrants...you cause harm to the society, by way of illegal wrong doings (maybe a 3 strike system depending on severity of the crime), then you are gone.

This country doesn't need to GROW any more...we have enough people here. The huge cities, massive populations, welfare, too few jobs, outsourcing to other countries because it is cheaper are all reasons to slow down immigration.

I agree wholeheartedly with you!

[Troublco]

I basically agree with the notion that it is our country, and we should be able to decide who immigrates and not. I know it's that way in other countries. You can't just up and move to Australia, for instance. They have strict requirements, with a few caveats for refugees and such.

I think a large portion of the problem is the issues that the illegals cause, like the health care cost issues, nonpayment of income tax, refusal to learn the language but demand that citizens learn theirs and so on is a large portion of why there's so much animosity on the subject. How often do you hear of an illegal getting into an accident without any insurance, and then almost nothing happens to them? I have a buddy who's lost his military career because of that exact situation, and there isn't a thing he can do but find another job.

While I sympathize with people wanting to better their situations and provide their children a better life, I really can't sympathize with not doing it the right way. I have ancestors who immigrated, and they had to jump through the hoops. I'm required to get a driver's license, hold insurance on my vehicles, pay taxes, obey the law and so on. I see no reason not to expect it of everyone else.

[theGinsue]

Are you a native american indian? If not, then aren't you being more than a tad hypocritical here?

Also, have you studied American history? Are you aware of the term "culutural melting pot"?

Do you know how many people live in China, India, Brazil, Phillipines? And how many live here?

No, I'm not a Native American, and no, I don't think I am being hypocritical. Yes, I've studied (and continue to study) American history. Are YOU aware that the phrase cultural melting pot / melting pot actually has it's origins in the first decade of the 20th Century - more than 100 years ago?

Do I know how many people live in the various nations you listed and how many live here? Not EXACTLY, but I've seen the numbers for all of those nations in the last year or two. Do you know what nation has the highest infection rate for HIV (KwaZulu-Natal) and what nation has the highest household income per capita (Luxembourg)? Who cares? My arguement isn't based on HOW MANY people we have, it's based on a variety of issues such as what value the people add. Sure, we have a HUGE group of citizens who don't add any value whatsoever - that's a whole separate issue.

What is the point of allowing immigration? Is it to add to our value as a nation? Is it to give a break to someone less fortunate than ourselves?
Is it just because it's the morally right thing to do? I'm not buying any of it.

There is a time and a place for everything. The time for the U.S. to have a liberal immigration policy ended more than 70 years ago.

When MY ancestors immigrated to the U.S. and when so many other individuals came from Europe, Asia (predominantly China), and South America during the height of our immigrant rush, we were in the infancy of our growth as a nation. We had so many emerging industries and not nearly enough people to fill all of the available positions. We had huge expanses of land that our national policy said we needed to spread out into. It was determined that it was in our best interest to have a liberal immigration policy. We were also in a respectable position to be able to handle the masses of individuals fleeing their home nations. None of these circumstances exists today.

We have far too many issues within our own borders we need to resolve before we concern ourselves with the citizens of other nations and try to embrace their "huddled masses". We certainly don't need their "wretched refuse" of their "teeming shore".

I COMPLETELY disagree. Have you ever driven around this state? When I first moved here, I was absolutely AMAZED that you can go for MILES down the highway and see absolutely nothing but empty land.

Do you mean the protected open space? The protected National and State Forests? The State Parks, BLM land, etc? The U.S. loses more than 3000 acres of this "empty land" every single day - to permanent development that can never again be used as habitat for elk and most other wild game species that call Colorado home. The rate of habitat loss in the West, primarily to subdivision and development, is staggering. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, more than 3.2 million acres of Western ranchland have been carved up for other uses, mostly new neighborhoods and shopping malls, since 1982. The human population in the West is growing much faster than the national average. Now the American Farmland Trust reports that 11 percent of remaining prime ranchland—as much as 8.8 million acres of classic elk wintering range—in the Rocky Mountain states could be converted to residential development by 2020.

Is this the lland you're referring to? Most people come to Colorado BECAUSE of that land and the condition it's in and the animals that live there. Do you propose that we develop that "empty land" for immigants? How short sighted. Personally, I'd like to believe that my gandkids will get to enjoy the wild open land that CO boasts so much of.

[theGinsue]

the problem could be easily fixed, but the fix would entail actually punishing those that break the law.... something the government will never do.

Most illegals are good hard working people but that is not the issue. We have the right to decide who comes to our country. Period.

Illegal immigration/immigration sure is working out well for California isn't it? Economically, culturally and enviromentally. (insert sarcasm) So if we need everyone we can get, shouldn't we be running ships to India, China and Africa and just loading up the country? Imagine what a "cultral melting pot" (insert eye roll and a reminder we aren't in the 19th century any more) utopia we would have here in the USA.(more sarcasm) Illegal aliens and illegal immigration cost the USA multi-millions/billions... after they pay a pittance in taxes. Now U.S. citizens have to get a national id card?
Immigration is legal, so is rum. Get a freakin clue dude.

Comment on first quote: Yes!
Comment on second quote: Yes!
Comment on third quote: Nicely stated!

[sniper7]

Illegal immigration/immigration sure is working out well for California isn't it? Economically, culturally and enviromentally. (insert sarcasm) So if we need everyone we can get, shouldn't we be running ships to India, China and Africa and just loading up the country? Imagine what a "cultral melting pot" (insert eye roll and a reminder we aren't in the 19th century any more) utopia we would have here in the USA.(more sarcasm) Illegal aliens and illegal immigration cost the USA multi-millions/billions... after they pay a pittance in taxes. Now U.S. citizens have to get a national id card?
Immigration is legal, so is rum. Get a freakin clue dude.

I call this post hitting the nail on the head

[Pancho Villa]

Millions of kids are born every year - if the country is "already big enough," why not make abortions mandatory?

Millions of poor legal citizens (hey, ever listen to Rush? The bottom 40% of income earners don't really pay taxes anyway) are a net drain on the tax system, use the medical system without "paying in," etc.

Worried about immigrants coming in and voting for a socialist? Better be more worried about the few million high school graduates every year, 'cause the US public education system is a lot better at turning out socialists than crumbling socialist countries.

Here's the deal, guys. If you don't want moochers using up "our" healthcare, "our" roads, etc., stop making them "free." The illusion that all this socialism would work out just fine if only we didn't have illegals around is a joke. Over 150 million people in the US belong to households that don't pay much if any income tax - I would be much more concerned about that than I would be about some mexis border hopping and not paying the $15 in social security that they "should be."

I hear lots of talk of individualism, individual rights, how evil collectivism is, etc, here every day...but all of a sudden it isn't "my" business to do with what I please (like hire cheap mexican labor,) its "our" country? And by extension, "our" business - since you get to tell me what I can and can't do, by virtue of being squirted out in the good ol' US of A? WTF is up with that?

Anyone ever get paid in cash, and not reported the income? (I know I have. For a while it was the only way I could keep a roof over my head and not starve.) Ever sell a rifle and said fuck you IRS, I'm not giving you 30% of the cash I made on this? You've just put yourself in the same tax-avoiding class as some illegals. Its heroic and sticking it to the man or taking back some of the money thats rightfully yours when we do it, but destroying society when some mexican does it? C'mon.

The bottom line is - socialism doesn't work, with or without illegal immigration. The bottom line is - unless there is significant cultural reform, most especially in the school system, we're on a bad road, with or without immigrants coming in. Cali would be down in a hole if they had a fence with tijuana 50 feet high and armed guards every 5 feet. Want to know why?

SOCIALISM DOESN'T WORK!

Don't go pie-in-the-sky socialist and tell me that your socialist utopia of Cali would have worked out swell...if it just weren't for those damn mexicans screwing everything up.

[Beprepared]

OK....so we have laws on the books to address the issues. Why don't we(feds)(cities) enforce them. Here is a different perspective.

1....millions of immigrants use social security and tax Id numbers many are fraudulent (of course many are also legit). For discussion we'll say half real half fake. I have now idea what the real numbers are. So with all these people paying into social security, will they collect retirement? Not as likely. They tax the system elsewhere sure. I believe reason one why the feds ignore this is to extend their ponzi scheme of social security.

2....votes, votes, votes

3....With the exception of China, Latin America, and the U.S. the world is being emigrated by Muslims. Europe and much of the world is being overrun by Muslims. They out breed the rest of the world. Islamic moderates are being pushed out by extremists. Latin American immigrants are Christians that breed.

Food for thought. More on perspective 3 read Mark Steyns bookAmerica Alone

[Jumpstart]

Latin American immigrants are Christians that breed.

Fine. Let them breed, in Latin America. In the meantime, let's start government paid for programs to get U.S. birthrates up on White Christians via economic incentives. How's that for a radical idea?