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I was only stating possible reasons why politicians let it happen. Controlled immigrations is fine. Illegal immigration is not. I agree with your previous statements. Your current statement^^^^^with some perceived racism injected into it ....yea a bit radical.Originally Posted by Jumpstart
WHy do you think it "racist" if you would indulge me? Ethno-centric perhaps, but racist?I was only stating possible reasons why politicians let it happen. Controlled immigrations is fine. Illegal immigration is not. I agree with your previous statements. Your current statement^^^^^with some perceived racism injected into it ....yea a bit radical.
Ethno-centric, sure I'll give you that.
If the process is so easy to immigrate, why do so many pay a coyote to bring them across the border? Seriously, I don't know the answer but the question itself has to point to something relevent to this discussion.
Second thing that comes to mind is this there's very little scientific data on the socialogical aspect of illegal immigration. Assuming the answers to the questions about illegal immigration are as easy as "to make money" or "so they don't have to pay taxes and pay for licenses..." may very well not be true. An example of this type of generalized truth is if I asked everyone to describe the most victimized group of people who live in the USA. I suspect I would get a lot of interesting answers, but the simple fact is the stastics from NIBRS and NCVS show african american males 18-24 years old are the most victimized. It refutes what most people say they know.
Illegal immigrants are well documented to strain certain parts of our economy, and that is a problem, but is it a problem that's alleviated through restriction or envelopment? I'm not sure we will ever know the answer to this question until we try one or the other. What I do know is this: the Republicans will advocate for restriction and the Democrats will advocate for envelopment. It comes down to votes for the politicians.
I personally believe envelopment should be tried first. I believe it's more in line with our countries heritage and belief that all are created equal, and has the best shot at leveling out the financial offset illegal immigration creates. I've seen restriction at work when I was in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar. It results in a separated society of citizens and non-citizens. This has happened in lots of different cultures over history (the Roman Empire and United Kingdom come to mind), and it just never seems to work out in the long run.
Mom's comin' 'round to put it back the way it ought to be.
Anyone that thinks war is good is ignorant. Anyone that thinks war isn't needed is stupid.
The time for us to bring in immigrants isn't over. We need to make it easier for anyone who wants to become a US citizen to make that transition. If we set reasonable standards for entry to make the legal path a viable option, then the number of people coming here illegally would drop. If the number of illegals drops, then DHS has much better chances of actually enforcing the laws. In fact, the only other way to dramatically stem illegal immigration would be for our economy to crater. Even the DMZ has cross border raids launched from it, and it's a fraction the width of our land borders.
Someone made the argument about not all the factories going overseas and it made me want to
Yes, factories have moved to where the cheap labor is. If we could bring in more cheap labor, maybe we could keep more of those factories here. Unless your job is in services, government, or construction it can be outsourced. So you can either ship the work to cheap workers overseas, or at home.
The idea that just "makes sense" isn't always correct. It may "make sense" that keeping out anyone but natural born citizens would translate to more jobs for said citizens, but it simply isn't so.
If you think your special because your parents moved to this country in the distant path, I would respectfully disagree. You have no more right to lay claim to the title "citizen" than anyone else who wants to go through the steps involved. And I think the steps involved should be easier and on a shorter timescale. Those huddled masses will be your customers in a few years, if you let them.
H.
So at the moment does an employer have a responsibility to ensure that the person they're hiring isn't an illegal immigrant (I'm talking something more substantial than day labor)?
I have a social security number, which I presume they would want from me if I applied for a job, but I also still have an English accent (so my wife tells me) so would they want to see my certificate of naturalization or my US passport?
"A lot of people seem obliged to have a viewpoint."
Nah, the U.S.A needs to come into the 21st century in regards to immigration, much like in Europe. We need to practice exclusivity not inclusivity. Our own U.S. citizens with only a high school diploma will take more than they put into the "system" over their lifetimes. Yet you would have us believe that third world peasants bringing their extended families with 5th grade educations will not. That's a tough sell and rightly so, it's simply not plausible. I take it you aren't from "here". Welcome to the U.S.A. I hope you did it the legal way.The time for us to bring in immigrants isn't over. We need to make it easier for anyone who wants to become a US citizen to make that transition. If we set reasonable standards for entry to make the legal path a viable option, then the number of people coming here illegally would drop. If the number of illegals drops, then DHS has much better chances of actually enforcing the laws. In fact, the only other way to dramatically stem illegal immigration would be for our economy to crater. Even the DMZ has cross border raids launched from it, and it's a fraction the width of our land borders.
Someone made the argument about not all the factories going overseas and it made me want to
Yes, factories have moved to where the cheap labor is. If we could bring in more cheap labor, maybe we could keep more of those factories here. Unless your job is in services, government, or construction it can be outsourced. So you can either ship the work to cheap workers overseas, or at home.
The idea that just "makes sense" isn't always correct. It may "make sense" that keeping out anyone but natural born citizens would translate to more jobs for said citizens, but it simply isn't so.
If you think your special because your parents moved to this country in the distant path, I would respectfully disagree. You have no more right to lay claim to the title "citizen" than anyone else who wants to go through the steps involved. And I think the steps involved should be easier and on a shorter timescale. Those huddled masses will be your customers in a few years, if you let them.
H.
You don't have to "give" me anything, just explain why what I posted is "racist" in your opinion.Ethno-centric, sure I'll give you that.
I dare you.
Oh BTW, the USA lets in over 2 million people from around the globe, into the USA, ANNUALLy and LEGALLY, more than all of the nations in the world COMBINED. That's LEGALLY mind you, not the millions coming over ILLEGALLY. Year after year decade after decade. Yet again you think we should be open borders for some pie-in-the skyprofit fantasy. Maybe we should take Mexico's lead and their immigration laws.The time for us to bring in immigrants isn't over. We need to make it easier for anyone who wants to become a US citizen to make that transition. If we set reasonable standards for entry to make the legal path a viable option, then the number of people coming here illegally would drop. If the number of illegals drops, then DHS has much better chances of actually enforcing the laws. In fact, the only other way to dramatically stem illegal immigration would be for our economy to crater. Even the DMZ has cross border raids launched from it, and it's a fraction the width of our land borders.
Someone made the argument about not all the factories going overseas and it made me want to
Yes, factories have moved to where the cheap labor is. If we could bring in more cheap labor, maybe we could keep more of those factories here. Unless your job is in services, government, or construction it can be outsourced. So you can either ship the work to cheap workers overseas, or at home.
The idea that just "makes sense" isn't always correct. It may "make sense" that keeping out anyone but natural born citizens would translate to more jobs for said citizens, but it simply isn't so.
If you think your special because your parents moved to this country in the distant path, I would respectfully disagree. You have no more right to lay claim to the title "citizen" than anyone else who wants to go through the steps involved. And I think the steps involved should be easier and on a shorter timescale. Those huddled masses will be your customers in a few years, if you let them.
H.
http://www.lonestardiary.com/?page_id=476
Look Jumpstart, the last thing I think this site needs is talk of racial exclusiveness. I don't want some member to screw up with the law, and the justice department, media, and Liberal loons, find the smallest minutia of racial talk. Then we're branded a Racist Militia.
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