Rebellion in America

[Elhuero]

hmmmmmm my thoughts on this might upset some people.

[BigBear]

hmmmmmm my thoughts on this might upset some people.

Bring it friend, people will get over it. We can't always agree, leads to boring forums. Just keep the language and personal insults down and I think it'd be fun to get in each others faces a little every now and then! HAHA.

[BigBear]

Succession - Yeah not happening anyone recall the last time a state(s) attempted to succeed? Saber rattling and small legal warning shots across the bow of the federal government do not indicate that there is a true movement towards state succession. Yeah sure, Montana and even Texas have eluded to such possible steps, but we all know that is so far from actuality that any other presumption is simply that, presumption.

I for one think this would make an EXCELLENT thesis/term paper subject... So many possibilities and tangets to chase and a lot of creative thinking to build upon.

[ronaldrwl]

Missed again BadShot but I respect your opinion that it may be to late or impossible to alter our course to wherever it's going as a country. But I'll feel better if we try.

[BadShot]

Ronaldrwl,

And in the spirit of discussion and debate, I too respect your opinion... yeah they're making me be nicer at work now

I do agree we need a change, that we need to reel back all facets of government. I am a huge fan of personal responsibility and that is a direct contradiction to the current state of affairs in American government at nearly all levels.

We need change, we need rational evolution and we (the people) need to reassert rational controls on those who govern in our name. What hasn't happened is a single or series of catalyzing events to urge the general populous to take active action. Even the near collapse of our economy in the last few years, even the blatant external threat to our society have failed to do so.

The real issue is that pretentious and polarizing groups such as those spawning the likes of Ron Paul and the more vocal portions of the supposed TEA party, ok hell even the Demacraps and Rebuplican'ts do nothing to draw to the cause, the average citizen. Rather they continue to fracture common bases in order to highlight narrow focus issue platforms. I'm honestly conflicted about that whole point.

While I mark myself as conservative, I am very centrist over all. I also firmly believe that to be true of the majority of our society. The sad part appears to be that along with being centrist, the majority of our society is also depressingly complacent. That would be why I noted the lack of societal pressures needed to induce change on a large scale.

So we continue to make headway on smaller issues at a local level. In that light there are several significant efforts at the local, regional and state level all across the country. Some of those pushes will force changes at the federal level. Whether those changes are for good or bad are yet to be seen.

We are a country governed by lawyers and self-serving buffoons. Until there is a far greater assumption of personal responsibility, until the average citizen can be brought into the fray, little will truly change.

[BigBear]

To sum up Badshot (I think): We've developed an "it can't happen to me" attitude, and until something amazingly tragic happens to individuals, nothing will change.

Is that correct? If it is, I completely agree. During the Katrina deal when the LA PD were taking peoples firearms, I had friends saying, "Good, then maybe they won't be looting and blah, blah". I asked them what if they were in LA and the PD was confiscating his guns for protecting his own property. He said, "They wouldn't do that to a regular joe. Those guys on TV must be criminals. They can take my guns out of my cold, dead hands." I just sighed... uh huh. Unless something happens to most individuals, no action will be taken.

[BadShot]

BigBear, Yeah pretty much.

[iamhunter]

I think you're talking about a different sort of situation bad shot.

We're not talking about succession or revolution, we're talking about civil rebellion.

It doesn't take THAT big of an event to start a civil movement, which is what we're talking about.

Nullifcation isn't addressing the "fall of the american empire" or succession or anything else, all it is is the states and the people telling the fed that "hey, we've had enough. You're overstepping your bounds, and it's not gonna happen in this state anymore."

Look at the civil rights movement.

It started out of virtually nothing, aside from the unjust and unfair treament of minorities.

And now instead of that, we have the unjust and unfair treatment of nearly ALL americans.

Doesn't seem like that far of a stretch to me.

And more and more people become aware and active every day.

[BadShot]

I think you're talking about a different sort of situation bad shot.

We're not talking about succession or revolution, we're talking about civil rebellion.

It doesn't take THAT big of an event to start a civil movement, which is what we're talking about.

Nullifcation isn't addressing the "fall of the american empire" or succession or anything else, all it is is the states and the people telling the fed that "hey, we've had enough. You're overstepping your bounds, and it's not gonna happen in this state anymore."

Look at the civil rights movement.

It started out of virtually nothing, aside from the unjust and unfair treament of minorities.

And now instead of that, we have the unjust and unfair treatment of nearly ALL americans.

Doesn't seem like that far of a stretch to me.

And more and more people become aware and active every day.

OK I can see where I could be partially divergent from the OP material. But I disagree that the Civil Rights movement was successful simply because of that issue. There were several societal pressures that made the ground fertile for the movement to succeed. A war weary country, a fundamental shift in the opinions and mindsets of the 20-30 age range, Democratic party centrism and popularity all laid the ground open.

I believe that a few minor legal shots across the bow mean little if nothing in the grand scheme of how we function as a society and republic. There are so many things that could be done to truly tell the Federal Government to wake up and straighten up that the States just chose to no do at all. Well with the few exceptions we already know of. So a bit of fluff and "Hey we'll make our own damn guns, na-na-nah" or "Bugger off we'll figure out health care for our own folks" from a distinct minority of states means about nothing at all in the over all picture.

That's really the point I'm trying to make I guess.

[ronaldrwl]

So a bit of fluff and "Hey we'll make our own damn guns, na-na-nah" or "Bugger off we'll figure out health care for our own folks" from a distinct minority of states means about nothing at all in the over all picture.

That sounds good to me. I'll take that as a starting point.