Just cant win

[ChunkyMonkey]

I dont think a detain = an arrest. Am I wrong? I had a few buddies that were detained overnight, but weren't charged nor have arrest records. LEO?

[funkfool]

And again:
Repetition of hearsay is foolish.
Those who repeat what they hear without benefit of engaging their brain should just hold up a sign that says "FOOL".
(No - not Funkfool!)
Repetition of statements of questionable fact can be criminal.
Re: Fire in a theatre and you are pointing people to an area without an exit - yelling "EXIT" and they die - it is as if you pushed them into the fire yourself.
And THAT - my friends, is EXACTLY what these people who are making these comments want... repetition of falsehoods make them begin to appear as pseudo fact.

Please.
Do youself and others a favor.
Read the bill yourself and make informed intelligent comments:
Since I don't see where anyone has posted it...
Here it is: SB1070
And since the site is getting so much traffic for the .pdf ...
Here is the Legislative fact sheet: FACT SHEET FOR S.B. 1070

After reading it... you may have different ideas of what this law does and does not do.

[iamhunter]

I actually read the entire bill this morning, and my concerns still exists here:

1. Requires a reasonable attempt to be made to determine the immigration status of a person during any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or political subdivision (political subdivision) if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S.

How on earth can you you gauge "reasonable suspicion" that a person is here illegally?

An accent?

A skin color?

What?

What's the definition of "legitimate contact"?

I have no problems with a law like this one, except this specific bill is poorly worded in numerous places, leaves alot of room for interpretation, and leaves alot of room for abuse.


Easy Fixes:

A.) In order to be subject to a immigration check, the suspect must
i.) Be engaged in a licensed activity (i.e. driving) and/or
ii.) Be committing, or intending to commit a misdemeanor or felony.

I leave out minor infractions and petty offenses because I don't think the cops should have carte blanche to stop and identify people for something stupid like jaywalking, loitering, etc.

I mean would anyone have a problem with the above clauses being incorporated into the law?

It would go along way to protect valid citizens from undue scrutiny and invasion of privacy.


Maybe the above provisions already exist in the bill.

Like I said, I read it, but found no such clauses.

Granted, legal jargon can be hard to understand and I may have simply missed it.

[Marlin]

Comes down to if you never run across the law in a way that get you stopped, You stay here. If you are stopped and don't have the proper documents,Which by the way, as a resident alien you would need to have at all times (Federal law.) You get a free ride home and try it again next week..

In all honesty, it just brings the Federal law down to state level. That way, they don't have to deal with the Feds who aren't going to do anything to begin with..

[funkfool]

I actually read the entire bill this morning, (Excellent - thank you. :-) &#174
and my concerns still exists here:

How on earth can you you gauge "reasonable suspicion" that a person is here illegally?

An accent? No

A skin color? No

What?

To gauge "reasonable suspicion" that a person is here illegally:
If, during a legitimate contact, the person being questioned could not produce valid identification, in the form of a drivers license or ID, and then could not or would not produce citizenship documentation - then you have "reasonable suspicion".

What's the definition of "legitimate contact"?

Legitimate contact:
When a police officer has a legal reason to approach a person who has committed a violation, such as a traffic violation or other crime.

[Irving]

What about when you produce your driver's license and just don't speak perfect English.

[cowboykjohnson]

Then your driver's license gets checked like everyone else that has to present it, and if you come back clean your good to go.

[funkfool]

I do love how Obama is saying this law will produce effects akin to:
"Show me your papers please."

When he just gleefully signed a law - and made sure it had heavy and strict enforcement of non-compliance... that results in this:

"Produce your health care documentation at tax time.
Don't have it?
Fine him, and if he does not comply - take him to the stockade."

That IS in the health care law:
Non-compliance will result in fines and/or imprisonment.

Yet - you somehow don't hear much of a noise out of people about that.

Yes, some may attempt to enforce this immigration law outside of strict compliance with statute... that happens with EVERY law.
It leaves those persons with definable legal options intact.
Ie: You can sue.

[funkfool]

What about when you produce your driver's license and just don't speak perfect English.

If your DL comes back clean - you get your ticket and go.

Then your driver's license gets checked like everyone else that has to present it, and if you come back clean your good to go.

Nope - you get your traffic ticket JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!

[cowboykjohnson]

depending on what you did... if your not an a$$ clown to the officer you may get a warning.