More Piss poor judgment?

[BuffCyclist]

It is hard to say what was going through the cops mind, and yes he did have a split second to react.

However, if the motorcyclist had a gun and was pulling it on the cop, he would have done so on the left side of his body (think pointing the pistol below the left armpit).

To turn right all the way around on a motorcycle like that is VERY difficult (I know, I ride, well rode before I sold my bike recently). If he were left handed, then his right arm wouldn't be jerked back like that and have been a perceived threat of holding a firearm.

Now, if you have ever been on a motorcycle and pulled over. You know that with your helmet on, you have limited range of vision and almost no periphery. It's possible he heard something (a noise) come from behind him on the right and that caused him to turn to see what it was. I know that lately, when I've seen people be pulled over, two cops always approach the vehicle.

Lastly, when I was pulled over on my motorcycle once late at night around 3am I was scared shitless. I kept my hands on the bars, waited until the cop got next to me and then asked if I could lift my visor. Then, after he could see my eyes (and the fear in them, lol) I asked if I could remove my helmet. Cops do presume a lot with motorcyclists, as a helmet can be used as a weapon (it's heavy and the straps can act as a swinging device). But that's also because of the preconceived notions of motorcyclists being law breakers with speed and driving wrecklessly, which sucks for us.

But without knowing EXACTLY what was going on in the video, it's hard to say anything. I'm only commenting on how I perceive it to have happened. It is definitely ashame that it went down that way, hopefully the rider gets a large settlement and doesn't have to worry about not working the rest of his life.

[iamhunter]

But without knowing EXACTLY what was going on in the video, it's hard to say anything.

I'm not trying to call you out, but this just isn't the case.

Whatever the circumstances, whatever "threat" the cop claims to have "perceived", it doesn't matter.

The man was shot in the back. There was no furtive movement or vocal threat in the video,

the cop just gets out, draws down on the guy, and shoots him in the back.

Even if he feared for his life, the cop won't get ANY sympathy from me.

If you wanna be a cop, you have to be willing to hold yourself to a higher standard than that. You have to be willing to risk taking a bullet in the preservation of the people.

Shooting a man in the back because you were scared is NOT ok.

He took an oath, accepted the power that came with that oath, and then GROSSLY abused that power, and destroyed a man's life.

A shot placement a few inches to the left, and he could've TAKEN that man's life.

Unless the article made an error, and there was in fact a weapon, then there is no excuse.

I am not anti-cop at all, but I'm tired of cops putting themselves above the people they swear to protect.

Protect and serve, or get the hell off our payroll.

[Irving]

Well, maybe if the biker didn't have such dark tinted windows, the police officer would have felt more at ease. Officers never know who is behind the wheel or what they are doing.

[SA Friday]

Am I missing something here? I'm not a LEO, so my question is really a question, not rhetorical. The LEO shoots the guy, then when we see him on camera his gun is holstered and he draws it again?? Why would you shoot someone, holster your weapon, approach the guy and then draw your weapon again?

???

You do what you are trained to do in high stress situations. Standard qualifications has the cops drawing, firing, scanning, reholstering... He did what he was conditioned to do. It's not good conditioning, but there it is...

Watching the video, I suspect the cops going to be found guilty. It's really hard to say without seeing all the evidence though.

On a side note; many of you have been pretty hard on the cops lately. You all seem to forget that these incidents are the exception not the majority by far. Making blanket judgements on any group based on the exceptions is dangerous ground. I've read quite a few of these type statements in the last two or three "hate cops" threads lately.

I also suspect the hate cops threads keep coming like they have lately, and the mods are going to start shutting them down... Hate is easy, critical thinking takes work.

[Anton]

On a side note; many of you have been pretty hard on the cops lately. You all seem to forget that these incidents are the exception not the majority by far. Making blanket judgements on any group based on the exceptions is dangerous ground. I've read quite a few of these type statements in the last two or three "hate cops" threads lately.

I also suspect the hate cops threads keep coming like they have lately, and the mods are going to start shutting them down... Hate is easy, critical thinking takes work.

I have a handful of LEOs in the extended family and I have a lot of respect for them and the profession in general. However, incidents like this (and those in the other 'hate cops threads' recently) indicate that there is, at best, a very real, structural, problem with how law enforcement handles the 'enforcement' part of the profession.

I realize that in all human endeavors perfection is unobtainable, but shooting unarmed men in the back and killing the family dog over a $5 bag of weed is not okay and indicative of larger problems. Its certainly not in the best interests of the average citizen to hold their tongues while such incidents seem to become common occurrences.

[SA Friday]

I have a handful of LEOs in the extended family and I have a lot of respect for them and the profession in general. However, incidents like this (and those in the other 'hate cops threads' recently) indicate that there is, at best, a very real, structural, problem with how law enforcement handles the 'enforcement' part of the profession.

I realize that in all human endeavors perfection is unobtainable, but shooting unarmed men in the back and killing the family dog over a $5 bag of weed is not okay and indicative of larger problems. Its certainly not in the best interests of the average citizen to hold their tongues while such incidents seem to become common occurrences.

So you are saying there are systemic problems with LE over all in the USA based on, what, three incidents? Come on. Show me the numbers indicating there is a systemic issue here and then maybe you are talking about an overall problem versus specific incidents that need to be addressed as simply that, specific incidents. Without proof of an overall problem, there is no reason to address anything as a whole. You are reading into the publicized bad acts and overlooking the hundreds of thousands of LE interactions that happen daily without incident. Where's the logic in that? It's the same stance the anti's take with gun rights...

[iamhunter]

On a side note; many of you have been pretty hard on the cops lately. You all seem to forget that these incidents are the exception not the majority by far. Making blanket judgements on any group based on the exceptions is dangerous ground. I've read quite a few of these type statements in the last two or three "hate cops" threads lately.

I didn't make any blanket judgements.

I don't hate cops.

I just can't stand THIS cop.

And other cops like him that abuse or misuse their power.

Cops that uphold honor and justice have my full support.

[Anton]

So you are saying there are systemic problems with LE over all in the USA based on, what, three incidents? Come on. Show me the numbers indicating there is a systemic issue here and then maybe you are talking about an overall problem versus specific incidents that need to be addressed as simply that, specific incidents. Without proof of an overall problem, there is no reason to address anything as a whole. You are reading into the publicized bad acts and overlooking the hundreds of thousands of LE interactions that happen daily without incident. Where's the logic in that? It's the same stance the anti's take with gun rights...

Unfortunately, nobody keeps track of how many unarmed suspects are shot in the back, or how many no-knock warrants go wrong. But there are some statistics that do support my thesis,

"In 1997 alone, the Pentagon handed over more than 1.2 million pieces of military equipment to local police departments."
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/ba...paper_2006.pdf (Page 8)

"In a widely cited survey, criminologist Peter Kraska found that as of 1997, 90 percent of cities with populations of 50,000 or more had at least one paramilitary police unit, twice as many as in the mid-1980s.45 The increase has been even more pronounced in smaller towns: In a separate study, Kraska found that the number of SWAT teams serving towns with populations between 25,000 and 50,000 increased 157 percent between 1985 and 1996.46"
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/ba...paper_2006.pdf (Page 9)

"In 1972, there were just a few hundred paramilitary drug raids per year in the United States.69 According to Kraska, by the early 1980s there were 3,000 annual SWAT deployments, by 1996 there were 30,000, and by 2001 there were 40,000.70 The average city police department deployed its paramilitary police unit about once a month in the early 1980s. By 1995, that number had risen to seven.71 To give one example, the city of Minneapolis, Minnesota, deployed its SWAT team on no-knock warrants 35 times in 1987. By 1996, the same unit had been deployed for drug raids more than 700 times that year alone.72

In small- to medium-sized cities, Kraska estimates that 80 percent of SWAT callouts are now for warrant service. In large cities, it’s about 75 percent. These numbers, too, have been on the rise since the early 1980s.73 Orange County, Florida, deployed its SWAT team 619 times during one five-year period in the 1990s. Ninety-four percent of those callouts were to serve search warrants, not for hostage situations or police standoffs.74"
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/ba...paper_2006.pdf (Page 11)

Because I only had time to find one research paper on the matter, the quotes target only one portion of Law Enforcement. Should you wish I continue the discussion (although I believe that another thread should be created to do so) I would be happy to spend some time researching the matter and finding more information to present.

No-knock warrants, the militarization of law enforcement, etc. certainly are problems with the current manner in which law enforcement works. We can ignore it or we can address it.

[SA Friday]

Unfortunately, nobody keeps track of how many unarmed suspects are shot in the back, or how many no-knock warrants go wrong. But there are some statistics that do support my thesis,

"In 1997 alone, the Pentagon handed over more than 1.2 million pieces of military equipment to local police departments."
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/ba...paper_2006.pdf (Page 8)

"In a widely cited survey, criminologist Peter Kraska found that as of 1997, 90 percent of cities with populations of 50,000 or more had at least one paramilitary police unit, twice as many as in the mid-1980s.45 The increase has been even more pronounced in smaller towns: In a separate study, Kraska found that the number of SWAT teams serving towns with populations between 25,000 and 50,000 increased 157 percent between 1985 and 1996.46"
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/ba...paper_2006.pdf (Page 9)

"In 1972, there were just a few hundred paramilitary drug raids per year in the United States.69 According to Kraska, by the early 1980s there were 3,000 annual SWAT deployments, by 1996 there were 30,000, and by 2001 there were 40,000.70 The average city police department deployed its paramilitary police unit about once a month in the early 1980s. By 1995, that number had risen to seven.71 To give one example, the city of Minneapolis, Minnesota, deployed its SWAT team on no-knock warrants 35 times in 1987. By 1996, the same unit had been deployed for drug raids more than 700 times that year alone.72

In small- to medium-sized cities, Kraska estimates that 80 percent of SWAT callouts are now for warrant service. In large cities, it’s about 75 percent. These numbers, too, have been on the rise since the early 1980s.73 Orange County, Florida, deployed its SWAT team 619 times during one five-year period in the 1990s. Ninety-four percent of those callouts were to serve search warrants, not for hostage situations or police standoffs.74"
http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/ba...paper_2006.pdf (Page 11)

Because I only had time to find one research paper on the matter, the quotes target only one portion of Law Enforcement. Should you wish I continue the discussion (although I believe that another thread should be created to do so) I would be happy to spend some time researching the matter and finding more information to present.

No-knock warrants, the militarization of law enforcement, etc. certainly are problems with the current manner in which law enforcement works. We can ignore it or we can address it.

Sure start a new thread, but none of the above shows anything other than tactics and equipment in LE have changed over the years. Surely, you are not suggesting that the LE tactics should never change and they shouldn't utilize new technology... Or are you suggesting that no-knock warrants should be made illegal? Or are you relating that no-knock warrants should have a higher level of proof before being approved by a judge (this is a problem with Judges, not LE BTW). What's your point in this info?

My point was many on this site lately have been making generalizations based on a huge minority of incidents. These numbers don't relate to my post or my point. So, I'm not really sure what you are getting at here.

[iamhunter]

My point was many on this site lately have been making generalizations based on a huge minority of incidents. These numbers don't relate to my post or my point. So, I'm not really sure what you are getting at here.

I don't think the majority of people mean to make generalizations about all cops,

they're just referring to the bad ones,

and yes, there are bad ones.