Proud to be White-Kramer from Seinfeld

[TS12000]

Totally agree Bailey, no argument here about using correct sources (I was never one to believe much in any email) get the information cited from a reliable source is a perfectly fine request.

As far as the other threads go I haven't seen them so I can't speak on any pattern, and it's not really my place to criticize him either which way.

Is what it is but I think I'm done with this thread as well.

[Jumpstart]

I understand the point. But in any debate, honesty = credibility.

Why fabricate something (or use a fabricated story) when there's so much truthful evidence that could be used to credibly make a point?

Okay, since you are hung up on if Kosmo Kramer wrote the damn piece or not, forget his name was involved, then reread it. The point IS the hypocrisy, not if Kosmo wrote it. So you will feel better, let's say MLK wrote it.

[Jumpstart]

And five times! How dare you! /sarcasm

Back on point, Jumpstart was just trying to start a discussion about reverse racism me thinks. Maybe not the best way, but I wouldn't start yelling and calling him a racist quite yet.

1.Bingo. We have a winner!
2. What would have been a better way to express it?
3. I don't care if people think I'm racist (whatever that even means anymore) just because of posting provocatively, that's the whole point. I'm just after fairness and common sense.
4. Oh yeah, I posted , it after drinking a German beer (GASP, the horror)!!!

[TS12000]

1.Bingo. We have a winner!
2. What would have been a better way to express it?
3. I don't care if people think I'm racist (whatever that even means anymore) just because of posting provocatively, that's the whole point. I'm just after fairness and common sense.
4. Oh yeah, I posted , it after drinking a German beer (GASP, the horror)!!!

I think posting your own thoughts about affirmative action, border discrimination, etc, etc. might have been a better route (also using less racial slurs might garner a little better response).

On point three I agree people may call me a racist or hate monger or whatever but I like to consider myself a realist. If any group (and I mean any group based on race, religion, political association, etc) acts ignorant or straightforwardly foolish I have no problem pointing it out as well as pointing out they all have something in common (besides their foolishness).

[Bailey Guns]

Okay, since you are hung up on if Kosmo Kramer wrote the damn piece or not, forget his name was involved, then reread it. The point IS the hypocrisy, not if Kosmo wrote it. So you will feel better, let's say MLK wrote it.

OK...since you want to be condescending and apparently have reading comprehension issues, let me state it again:

I understand the point. But in any debate, honesty = credibility.

Why fabricate something (or use a fabricated story) when there's so much truthful evidence that could be used to credibly make a point?

I even said I don't necessarily disagree with the message. Only the fact that you seem to think it's OK to LIE or to perpetuate a LIE in order to get your point across. In other words, HOW the message was delivered and not by WHOM the message was delivered.

I'm not hung up on anything. You don't seem to understand that a LIE is a LIE. And on this topic, totally unnecessary when there are mountains of legitimate evidence you could use to further your point.

It has nothing to do with how I "feel". It has to do with what I think about this particular issue.

And what I think is it's quite foolish to attempt a legitimate debate with someone (or argue, as it happens to be here) who thinks an email:

• that's been circulating the internet for almost 3.5 years
• is full of falsehoods and outright lies
• was written before the incident took place
• was modified to fit the incident - since it was written before the incident occured
• regardless of whether or not it was written by, or refers to, MLK or your fairy godmother

is a legitimate basis for a rational argument regarding discrimination.

Now I FEEL better for venting.

BTW...you do realize Kosmo Kramer is a fictional character, right?

[Jumpstart]

OK...since you want to be condescending and apparently have reading comprehension issues, let me state it again:



I even said I don't necessarily disagree with the message. Only the fact that you seem to think it's OK to LIE or to perpetuate a LIE in order to get your point across. In other words, HOW the message was delivered and not by WHOM the message was delivered.

I'm not hung up on anything. You don't seem to understand that a LIE is a LIE. And on this topic, totally unnecessary when there are mountains of legitimate evidence you could use to further your point.

It has nothing to do with how I "feel". It has to do with what I think about this particular issue.

And what I think is it's quite foolish to attempt a legitimate debate with someone (or argue, as it happens to be here) who thinks an email:

• that's been circulating the internet for almost 3.5 years
• is full of falsehoods and outright lies
• was written before the incident took place
• was modified to fit the incident - since it was written before the incident occured
• regardless of whether or not it was written by, or refers to, MLK or your fairy godmother

is a legitimate basis for a rational argument regarding discrimination.

Now I FEEL better for venting.

BTW...you do realize Kosmo Kramer is a fictional character, right?

So "it" is lie? What? That Kosmo Kramer wrote it? Maybe. SO WHAT. It is not a credibilty issue unless YOU are Kramer. It is about the content of the e-mail and the expression of experience of WHOEVER THE HELL wrote it, of which many people can draw from and identify with. Now why don't you explain what else constitutes calling the entire e-mail letter a lie, regardless of if Bozo the Clown wrote or Kosmo Kramer wrote it.

[Graves]

BTW...you do realize Kosmo Kramer is a fictional character, right?

[Irving]

The person who wrote that article is just upset that he can't call people ******s like he wants to. He feels shorted because he wants to be racist and feels like he can't, yet at the same time, he thinks that everyone else is freely racist with no consequences; which is not likely the case.

[Jumpstart]

The person who wrote that article is just upset that he can't call people ******s like he wants to. He feels shorted because he wants to be racist and feels like he can't, yet at the same time, he thinks that everyone else is freely racist with no consequences; which is not likely the case.

That was quite a pile Stu.
The gist of the letter is advocation for one's ethnic group if one is white and the negative consequences of doing so in today's politically correct climate. Which ironically,some people on this forum seem to discriminate and associate white advocation with politically correct negative consequences. Brainwashing is the point. It's not about calling people names. It's about fairness.

[Bailey Guns]

It IS a credibility issue. The person who wrote the original email (and you, too, apparently) has a problem thinking for him/herself. Why do you think that person felt the need to attach a famous name to the email? To get attention that perhaps he wouldn't otherwise get?

I don't like racism or racist behavior in anyone. I think that historically, blacks in this country were victims of racism and the need to develop many of these organizations to advance the cause of equality was great. Sometimes, an organization outlives it's need.

I, too, agree that in this day and age many of those organizations have become corrupt. Man tends to do that. What starts out as a good idea to fulfill a legitimate need becomes corrupt for various reasons. Usually it's power or money. And the more power and money becomes involved, the more corrupt the organization can become and the more the leadership looses sight of the original intent and goals.

Frankly, I don't think there's a need these days for the NAACP or many of the other organizations listed in that silly email. And I agree that if we had organizations that overtly stated they existed "for white people only", it would most likely be labeled a racist organization. But so what? I don't think I'm going to advance my agenda by forwarding that email or posting it on a gun forum. I do think I'd look like a fool for doing that...so I choose not to. Oh, yeah. I really don't think by forwarding or posting trash like that I'd really change anyone's mind. Apparently, you do.

Ultimately, I have my opinions on what constitutes racism or racist behavior in a person or organization. But what have I done about it? Nothing. Well, maybe a little. I have my opinions and I share them with those that care to listen when the subject comes up. And I don't support racist causes, or racism, by anyone.


What have you done about it? Other than post that ridiculous email?

So, here a few thoughts on quotes from the email:

"There is nothing improper about this e-mail..." Ummm...yes there is. The author felt compelled to LIE HIS ASS OFF in order to try to communicate, and lend ligitimacy, to his point. He also may have done more harm than good because there are those out there who probably believe Michael Richards wrote this (or in your case, believe Kosmo Kramer wrote it).

I've had people perpetuate lies about me that caused me great personal distress. It's a situation that is unpleasant. Especially in this day and age with instant communications through electronic media.

Michael Richards never said that nonsense in court...but I wonder how much grief he's had to endure because it lives on electronically? As a matter of fact, he made a very sincere apology for his tirade and never said anything of the sort attributed to him in that email, in court or in his real apology. But gauranteed there are many out there who will, without any research, read this and believe he said it. His real words nor his apology will mean anything to many people because of this nonsense email.

"Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on. I sadly don't think many will." It has nothing to do with proud. It has to do with common sense. I, sadly, think TOO MANY will (or have) send it on.

"That's why we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country." Right. First off, who's "we"? Secondly, what rights have we lost? Third, you're trying to tell me I've lost rights because I won't forward some stupid email? Gee...if I'd known it was that simple I would've been forwarding this type of crap all along. Especially that one from Bill Gates where he's going to give me $1,000.00 for every person to whom I forward his test email. I should have listened because at the end of that email it said it was true because it was written by a person who knows a lawyer and that lawyer verified Bill Gates couldn't say such a thing if he wasn't going to follow through on it. Well, for fuck's sake. I've decided I DO want Bill Gate's money, and I do want my rights back. I'm gonna start using that FORWARD button!

"We won't stand up for ourselves!" Who the fuck is "we"?