Save this old man and your rights at the same time.

[Irving]

Now, most do not realize that Kansas and Washington states have gone to issuing driver's licenses and I saw a number of those during these contacts. Not hard to turn in your Kansas DL and get a Colorado DL.

Don't all states issue driver's licenses? Maybe you could clear that up a bit so we know what you mean.

[OneGuy67]

Sorry! What I meant was, those particular states have a looser requirement than Colorado in obtaining driver's licenses (documentation, licensing requirements, etc) and I have seen those who are illegal aliens obtain driver's licenses from them in great numbers.

[DOC]

Your not a cop. YOU DON'T WRITE IN ALL CAPS. lol j/k
Good write up.
While we are all like minded people here we can get dragged down in minor details and quibble about them to no end. Its just because we are so damn smart and good looking that its hard to find fault in each other IMHO.
So this brings me to the fact that a man protecting his property should not be assumed guilty because he shot at the perpetrators involved. We must assume that he was justified in it until a time that a prosecutor presents evidence to prove a crime was committed.
Letting the criminals off with a slap on the wrist is not ok if any of the other allegations against them are true. Being an undocumented and illegal alien plus part of a car theft ring is pretty bad and reason to push for justice. But if that is the case they are just going to keep doing it because letting them off makes us look like we are pussies.
I'm tired of it and I want something done about crime, criminals and politicians. And I don't care if their feelings or power gets hurt as long as its fair for all the people now and in the future.

[palepainter]

Wow! I've been a little busy this weekend and unable to get back to this thread and I've been tarred and feathered by some here. I've been accused of being the DA involved in this case and apparently, an idiot. Thanks people! I appreciate it. I'll endeavor to review these strings next time while I'm on my National Guard drill weekend, so I'll know when people are calling me names and accusing me of being something that I am not.

I am relatively new to this site and have an interest in guns, which is why I am on this site. The politics aside, it is a great site for people to gather that share an interest in firearms.

That being said, I really don't appreciate the attacks on me. I am capable of reading and I have read the damn arrest affidavit regarding Mr. Wallace and no where on there does Mr. Wallace tell the cops investigating that he went outside and was nearly run over, which is why he allegedly shot. In fact, it appears he stood on his porch and fired a couple of shots at them as they were fleeing. If that is the case, he needs to be charged. The affidavit is a down and dirty version of events and I would love to read the entire case report on it and to see what information was obtained in a subsequent interview with Mr. Wallace or if he wrote out a statement.

Additionally, I am a cop and have done a number of these types of investigations in my nearly 20 years a cop and some of them (investigations) take time. Some of them, as it appears in this case, took a back seat to other, more serious investigations than a simple theft of a trailer. A trailer valued at $2,000 is a felony, but just a simple felony theft. That's it. If these two mopes were involved in an auto theft ring as alleged, then those charges are more serious and have far more serious penalties than a simple felony theft of an item valued at $2,000. It appears that when the detectives in the auto theft task force didn't have anything good on these guys, the warrants prepared by Wheat Ridge PD for their arrest on the simple theft were signed and they were scooped up.

As to the agricultural trespass conviction, I can' speak to that. I don't know why it was used or the circumstances that brought it about. To blanket say it was because the suspect was illegal and the DA didn't want him deported is pretty generic and inflamatory, which is what some want. To fan the flames. How many others have been offered a ag trespass plea bargain that weren't illegal? Was that a norm plea bargain offer for specific felony charges, no matter the gender, ethnicity or immigration status of the suspect? I don't know and I'm betting you don't either.

For me, I would prefer to deport all illegals that were contacted by law enforcement. I've run into a lot of them over the years, especially while on patrol and conducting traffic enforcement. An inability to understand English, not having a driver's license issued in Colorado, providing a matricular consular ID or a mexican driver's license (most were fraudulent and poorly at that), the vehicle belongs to "someone else" and the insurance card was good for only 30 days in order to get the plates were general clues to me that the person may not be a born or naturalized citizen of the US. The feds wouldn't come get them, so that left me with writing a ticket and impounding the vehicle if I could prove the insurance was fraudulent. Now, most do not realize that Kansas and Washington states have gone to issuing driver's licenses and I saw a number of those during these contacts. Not hard to turn in your Kansas DL and get a Colorado DL.

So, there it is. Feel free to vilify me some more.

Thanks for your insight on how this happens. And thank you for your dedication and service to the community.

[OneGuy67]

Your not a cop. YOU DON'T WRITE IN ALL CAPS. lol j/k
Good write up.
While we are all like minded people here we can get dragged down in minor details and quibble about them to no end. Its just because we are so damn smart and good looking that its hard to find fault in each other IMHO.
So this brings me to the fact that a man protecting his property should not be assumed guilty because he shot at the perpetrators involved. We must assume that he was justified in it until a time that a prosecutor presents evidence to prove a crime was committed.
Letting the criminals off with a slap on the wrist is not ok if any of the other allegations against them are true. Being an undocumented and illegal alien plus part of a car theft ring is pretty bad and reason to push for justice. But if that is the case they are just going to keep doing it because letting them off makes us look like we are pussies.
I'm tired of it and I want something done about crime, criminals and politicians. And I don't care if their feelings or power gets hurt as long as its fair for all the people now and in the future.

Thanks for the thoughts! I don't disagree with you one bit.

People want to put everyone involved into one box and forget there are a number of links here. The police who investigate and file charges are required to meet a 'probable cause' threshold. It is then turned over to the prosecutor who must meet a 'beyond a reasonable doubt' threshold for a conviction. There are a number of cases over the years that I have filed that the DA has elected to not prosecute as they felt they couldn't reach that threshold and we couldn't obtain any more evidence or provide the DA's office with any more substance in order to get them to change their mind.

In this case, Mr. Wallace has a scheduled hearing in September. The two theft suspects are being arraigned today. All three have a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. All three should be held accountable for their actions if their actions are proven to be criminal.

I agree with the feeling that the system is weighed towards the suspect and not toward the victim. I feel great empathy for the victims I deal with daily. I feel the fabric of society is rotting. The question is, what can you do? What do you want done about crime and criminals and politicians? Please don't think I am attacking you on this, but it isn't an easy answer.

I have my own opinion and it requires more money from the taxpayer, who currently is on an anti-government agenda right now and not willing to consider funding for more things I would feel would be necessary to fix the problems.

[ChunkyMonkey]

If only we can flip flop the fed tax rate and local. I am all for higher local tax and minimize federal tax.

[wctriumph]

Emailed and called.

[DOC]

Thanks for the thoughts! I don't disagree with you one bit.

People want to put everyone involved into one box and forget there are a number of links here. The police who investigate and file charges are required to meet a 'probable cause' threshold. It is then turned over to the prosecutor who must meet a 'beyond a reasonable doubt' threshold for a conviction. There are a number of cases over the years that I have filed that the DA has elected to not prosecute as they felt they couldn't reach that threshold and we couldn't obtain any more evidence or provide the DA's office with any more substance in order to get them to change their mind.

In this case, Mr. Wallace has a scheduled hearing in September. The two theft suspects are being arraigned today. All three have a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. All three should be held accountable for their actions if their actions are proven to be criminal.

I agree with the feeling that the system is weighed towards the suspect and not toward the victim. I feel great empathy for the victims I deal with daily. I feel the fabric of society is rotting. The question is, what can you do? What do you want done about crime and criminals and politicians? Please don't think I am attacking you on this, but it isn't an easy answer.

I have my own opinion and it requires more money from the taxpayer, who currently is on an anti-government agenda right now and not willing to consider funding for more things I would feel would be necessary to fix the problems.

Don't feel that speaking your mind in an attack at all. Its fine that you have some more thoughts on it. I don't feel threatened by someone disagreeing with me. Somebody pulling a baseball bat or trying to kick in my door is my idea of threatening. And I usually respond in kind. But a nice conversation about crime in the community that I feel a part of and don't want to see turn into a shithole is something that everyone should talk about. I'm not saying we need a fascist regime or a corn holing liberal utopia by thinking either. But there has to be a point where a person can feel safe in their home and in public free of fear of any second they will become a victim and they can't do a thing about it.

Prosecute both parties if evidence of a crime has been committed. DA's depend on confessions 90% of the time anyway 9% on taking a plea bargain and 1% on winning in front of a jury. However, I don't think that if the old man was justified in shooting a criminal that he should be detained for one second longer than needed. He shouldn't have to go to court to fight for himself or his rights because the DA wanted to be political and make an example out of him. Hoping he may plea to something but fearing taking in front of a judge that will throw it out.
Same for the other side if somehow that was their trailer and they were justified in taking it out and the old man is a coot then let it come out. Even if they were illegal aliens. But they should still be deported, because that is the law and if its unjust or unfair then change the law just don't side step it. Let a judge rule against the law and take it to appeals then the supreme court. That is the check and balance of our system and it should be used first before other bad ideas are contemplated.
About the paying for it thing. Well I'm sure we could afford to cut spending on gay little bridges stretching across I-25 when there is another bridge 40 feet away from it. And use the money from that for better uses. Things like that could be done without and free up a ton of money.
But that's just me I guess?

If only we can flip flop the fed tax rate and local. I am all for higher local tax and minimize federal tax.

That's a heck of an idea.

[jim02]

I agree with the feeling that the system is weighed towards the suspect and not toward the victim. I feel great empathy for the victims I deal with daily. I feel the fabric of society is rotting. The question is, what can you do? What do you want done about crime and criminals and politicians? Please don't think I am attacking you on this, but it isn't an easy answer.

I will take a shot at these questions.

What can you do? When we see an injustice occuring we need to spread the word and band together to put pressure on the powers that be to correct the wrong. Just like I am asking people to do here. It has seemed to start working since this happened in FEB and it a few days after "We The People" started puting the pressure on, the crminals were arrested. The so called investigation seemed to wrap up coincidently a few days after we put the heat on and not in the 5 months prior.

What do you want done about crime and criminals and politicians? Politicans, term limits in all political offices would be a great start for all states and the fed to have. We need to inform each other of what politicans are really doing so we can expose them for what they are and can vote with facts and not the B.S. they say in their campain ads.
The Bush and Obama adminstrations have no intrest in the sovereignty of the United States and no intrest in stoping the illegals and enforcing Americas laws. Bush is gone forever so now we need to focus on the future and vote for the politicans who are interested in our sovereignty.

[SA Friday]

I don't necessarily disagree with much of your sentiment, Jim, but I would like to comment on your judgement on the investigation aspect of this issue. We simply don't have all the information concerning the investigations into these crimes. I'm far from happy about the residivism of the illegals, expecially after being deported due to criminal activities, returning, but I'm not willing to lay judgement on the investigations of both the illegals nor the 81 year old man. I would sooner have the investigations done in a rational and thorough manner, and that takes time, than rush into a politically influenced decision as to the prosecutorial discretion of charging people with crimes. These matters, especially investigations with media coverage, are rife with injustices from rushing to judgement.

In this case, I believe the aspects of the shooter's actions were easier to desipher a course of action. The thieves actions, although also easy to say they were stealing, could very well have had many secondary considerations or investigations which led to the delay in the DA determining what he would do. His decision to not press charges and allow Wheat Ridge PD to arrest and follow through with prosection on the two thieves could just as easily be a calculated and thought out process as much as it's being argued as gross indifference. There isn't any information to support either side at this point.