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Thread: VA Marajuana

  1. #31
    Industry Partner BPTactical's Avatar
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    I have thought about this and even asked my attorney his thoughts.-Here is what he put forth but not verbatim:
    1- The Colorado MMJ permit is NOT a prescription, but rather a "reccomendation" from a Doctor.
    Therefore it holds very little legal weight. How this would be viewed in a court of law regarding "Unlawful use" as defined by Federal law remains unclear.
    2- The descrepancy of State vs Federal law. This is the grey area. As others have noted, firearm laws are Federally controlled and in an absolute black/white scenario MJ is illegal under Federal law. This trumps state law.
    3- Access to State database by law enforcement. As this is a medical record it is protected under the HIPPA act. Records protected under the HIPPA act are only accessible by supeona and only when there is reasonable cause to believe a crime has been committed. I have heard that law enforcement can confirm that the person in question is a lawfull holder of a MMJ permit but whether that is true I am not sure.
    4- David Ogden sent out a memo to federal prosecutors a while back that stated it would be a poor use of federal funds to prosecute MMJ permit holders that were in "Clear and unambigous compliance" with state laws concerning MMJ.

    October 19,2009
    MEMORANDUM FOR SELECTED UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS
    FROM: David W. Ogden, Deputy Attorney General
    SUBJECT: Investigations and Prosecutions in States Authorizing the Medical Use of Marijuana
    This memorandum provides clarification and guidance to federal prosecutors in States that have enacted laws authorizing the medical use of marijuana. These laws vary in their substantive provisions and in the extent of state regulatory oversight, both among the enacting States and among local jurisdictions within those States. Rather than developing different guidelines for every possible variant of state and local law, this memorandum provides uniform guidance to focus federal investigations and prosecutions in these States on core federal enforcement priorities.
    The Department of Justice is committed to the enforcement of the Controlled Substances Act in all States. Congress has determined that marijuana is a dangerous drug, and the illegal distribution and sale of marijuana is a serious crime and provides a significant source of revenue to large-scale criminal enterprises, gangs, and cartels. One timely example underscores the importance of our efforts to prosecute significant marijuana traffickers: marijuana distribution in the United States remains the single largest source of revenue for the Mexican cartels.
    The Department is also committed to making efficient and rational use of its limited investigative and prosecutorial resources. In general, United States Attorneys are vested with “plenary authority with regard to federal criminal matters” within their districts. USAM 9-2.001. In exercising this authority, United States Attorneys are “invested by statute and delegation from the Attorney General with the broadest discretion in the exercise of such authority.” Id. This authority should, of course, be exercised consistent with Department priorities and guidance.
    The prosecution of significant traffickers of illegal drugs, including marijuana, and the disruption of illegal drug manufacturing and trafficking networks continues to be a core priority in the Department’s efforts against narcotics and dangerous drugs, and the Department’s investigative and prosecutorial resources should be directed towards these objectives. As a general matter, pursuit of these priorities should not focus federal resources in your States on individuals whose actions are in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state laws providing for the medical use of marijuana. For example, prosecution of individuals with cancer or other serious illnesses who use marijuana as part of a recommended treatment regimen consistent with applicable state law, or those caregivers in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law who provide such individuals with marijuana, is unlikely to be an efficient use of limited federal resources. On the other hand, prosecution of commercial enterprises that unlawfully market and sell marijuana for profit continues to be an enforcement priority of the Department. To be sure, claims of compliance with state or local law may mask operations inconsistent with the terms, conditions, or purposes of those laws, and federal law enforcement should not be deterred by such assertions when otherwise pursuing the Department’s core enforcement priorities.
    Typically, when any of the following characteristics is present, the conduct will not be in clear and unambiguous compliance with applicable state law and may indicate illegal drug trafficking activity of potential federal interest:
    • unlawful possession or unlawful use of firearms;
    • violence;
    • sales to minors;
    • financial and marketing activities inconsistent with the terms, conditions, or purposes of state law, including evidence of money laundering activity and/or financial gains or excessive amounts of cash inconsistent with purported compliance with state or local law;
    • amounts of marijuana inconsistent with purported compliance with state or local law;
    • illegal possession or sale of other controlled substances; or
    • ties to other criminal enterprises.
    Of course, no State can authorize violations of federal law, and the list of factors above is not intended to describe exhaustively when a federal prosecution may be warranted. Accordingly, in prosecutions under the Controlled Substances Act, federal prosecutors are not expected to charge, prove, or otherwise establish any state law violations. Indeed, this memorandum does not alter in any way the Department’s authority to enforce federal law, including laws prohibiting the manufacture, production, distribution, possession, or use of marijuana on federal property. This guidance regarding resource allocation does not “legalize” marijuana or provide a legal defense to a violation of federal law, nor is it intended to create any privileges, benefits, or rights, substantive or procedural, enforceable by any individual, party or witness in any administrative, civil, or criminal matter. Nor does clear and unambiguous compliance with state law or the absence of one or all of the above factors create a legal defense to a violation of the Controlled Substances Act. Rather, this memorandum is intended solely as a guide to the exercise of investigative and prosecutorial discretion.
    Finally, nothing herein precludes investigation or prosecution where there is a reasonable basis to believe that compliance with state law is being invoked as a pretext for the production or distribution of marijuana for purposes not authorized by state law. Nor does this guidance preclude investigation or prosecution, even when there is clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law, in particular circumstances where investigation or prosecution otherwise serves important federal interests.
    Your offices should continue to review marijuana cases for prosecution on a case-by-case basis, consistent with the guidance on resource allocation and federal priorities set forth herein, the consideration of requests for federal assistance from state and local law enforcement authorities, and the Principles of Federal Prosecution.
    cc: All United States Attorneys
    Lanny A. Breuer
    Assistant Attorney General Criminal Division
    B. Todd Jones
    United States Attorney
    District of Minnesota
    Chair, Attorney General’s Advisory Committee
    Michele M. Leonhart
    Acting Administrator
    Drug Enforcement Administration
    H. Marshall Jarrett
    Director
    Executive Office for United States Attorneys
    Kevin L. Perkins
    Assistant Director
    Criminal Investigative Division
    Federal Bureau of Investigation





    Clear as mud right?

    Probably not worth the risk overall.......
    The most important thing to be learned from those who demand "Equality For All" is that all are not equal...

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  2. #32
    Iceman sniper7's Avatar
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    not worth the risk.

    do you value your gun rights and right to self defense?

    can you take other medications/medicines that would work close to as well, but still be legal?

    until there is further clarification I would highly recommend against the idea, the DOW says you can't hunt while under the influence or drugs and alcohol.

    Also imagine the scenario that you had to shoot someone after you recently smoked a J to ease the pain, they take you in, you get blood work done, during the trial or court hearing or whatever takes place after and incident (if one takes place), the judge sees you were under the influence of MJ while the self defense shooting took place...he now has to question whether that was a factor and if your mindset was correct when you pulled the trigger....depending on the judge it would go either way.
    All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break em for no one.

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  3. #33
    Fleeing Idaho to get IKEA Bailey Guns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokenscout View Post
    Also I was thinking about opening a Gun Shop/Liquer Store/Marajuana Dispensery. One stop shopping,you would have to have the proper ID. I have to look up the zoning laws first. Wish me luck. And yes we would take food stamps
    When I had my store in Bailey it was adjacent to a liquor store. We had a big sign on top of the bldg:

    "Alcohol - Tobacco - Firearms"

    Now, there's a "dispensary" in my old store called "Sunshine Solutions" or something similar. I think that's pretty funny.

    Stella - my best girl ever.
    11/04/1994 - 12/23/2010



    Don't wanna get shot by the police?
    "Stop Resisting Arrest!"


  4. #34
    Fleeing Idaho to get IKEA Bailey Guns's Avatar
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    Personally, I have some thoughts on the topic. Question 11e on the 4473 reads:
    Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

    If you've ever used a controlled substance unlawfully does that make you an unlawful user? Is there a time limit?

    A hypothetical example:
    My wife has a prescription for 800mg Motrin tablets. Not real high on the list of abused drugs but a prescription (and a controlled substance) nonetheless. I go to the medicine cabinet for some Motrin for pain control...we have lots of 200mg tablets and I take 4 of them. 800mgs. Nothing wrong with that (aside from possible liver damage).

    Next time I need some Motrin for pain we happen to be in the car and I don't have access to the 200mg tablets. However, she has an 800mg tablet in a small baggie in her purse. She gives it to me and I take it in lieu of 4 of the 200mg tablets.

    This happens to be on the way to the gunshop where I intend on purchasing a gun. I select the gun, complete the 4473 answering "No" to question 11e. I pass the background check.

    How many felonies have I (and/or my wife) committed in this hypothetical scenario? Is anyone really going to care?

    (A bigger question, what fantasy world am I living in where my wife goes to a gunshop with me?)
    Frankly, I'm really not for or against the MMJ thing as I believe there are far worse things going on that I need to be concerned about. It does bring up some interesting questions, though...the OP's being one.

    What about being in a job where drug testing is required? Let's say a doctor prescribes the stuff to you and you later get tagged in a drug test at work. Is the "prescription" a defense to violating the rules against MJ use?

    I think this is a very complicated subject and "yes" or "no" answers aren't always going to work. A lot of issues are going to have to be worked out. As a matter of fact, the Park County Sheriff was just involved in this situation.

    A lady was arrested for DUID. She had a prescription for MMJ. Charges were dropped and she wanted her "evidence" back which had been confiscated by the arresting deputy. One thing led to another and now the sheriff is the star of a YouTube video the lady took with a hidden camera. She did get her stuff back.
    Stella - my best girl ever.
    11/04/1994 - 12/23/2010



    Don't wanna get shot by the police?
    "Stop Resisting Arrest!"


  5. #35
    Pinche Gringo brokenscout's Avatar
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    I just turned 35 and theres not much room to go up with the pain pills. I have 5 kids. I tried to "buck up" and stopped taking them,but decided I liked playing with my kids more,or even picking them up. Need something to help. Are there any healthy pain pills?

  6. #36
    Varmiteer Seamonkey's Avatar
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    I don't have a dog in this fight so my rambling isn't worth much but...


    SHTF and you shoot and kill " an honor roll student who has never in his life done anything like this before, such a nice kid, such potential" yet there you are savagely gunning him down with out mercy. Never mind his gun or knife or that he was in your house at 0100 and pockets full of drugs and in your kids room... or in the parking lot or what not.

    Lets say you only need to medicate every couple days or only when in pain. So say you medicate on Monday, shooting occurs on Thursday. From my understanding you will test positive for cannabis even weeks later. An aggressive lawyer can use that against you to say you were all doped up and shot poor little Timmy. You could get sh^t faced drunk every night and be sober/legal the next day yet medicate once and it's weeks before it clears (I think, not a Dr. so don't know that for a fact on how long it takes THC to clear the system)

    Any non lethal options? Tasers, mace, tear gas... cattle prod? Railroad spikes? Can your spouse carry for the two of you?

    Don't know man, sucks to have to choose between being able to protect yourself and your family or (IMO) a silly and outdated prohibition law.


  7. #37
    QUITTER Irving's Avatar
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    There are some synthetic, and legal, products around that are supposed to mimic the high of THC. I don't know anything about them though, and would strongly suspect that they are made for people who just want to get blazed up. Meaning that you can go to a dispensary and (if you choose a good one), they will ask you about your symptoms and suggest certain strains that will meet your needs. There are some really great dispensaries around that do just that, however, there are even more places that are just set up to sell pot. You walk in, they take you in the back and say, "So what do you want?" They don't ask about symptoms, don't tell you what anything does. They give the better dispensaries a bad name.
    "There are no finger prints under water."

  8. #38
    Pinche Gringo brokenscout's Avatar
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    Default Thanks guys,just read this

    To much grey area,
    http://www.rmgo.org/faq/#MMJ

  9. #39
    Paintball Shooter
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    Why would you pay for a license to smoke a tree in the first place?

  10. #40
    Angels rejoice when BigBears trumpet blows
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    Quote Originally Posted by omio View Post
    Why would you pay for a license to smoke a tree in the first place?

    So you don't pay MUCH, MUCH more fot tickets, court costs, attorney costs, felony warrants, bonds, etc ad nauseum.

    How do you like your rights now? lol.

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