This country is so done.

[Ryan_Th3_K1d]

While I agree with much of the sentiments here, there is no Right to go to an Av's game. So you have no right to not be searched at random. Same thing with flying. My problem is that the TSA shouldn't be doing the screening, the airlines should.

X3

I don't get where my rights are being violated...I have the right/choice to go to an Avalanche game/fly on an airplane, and i know the cost(that includes having the possibility of being randomly searched). I don't see anywhere in the constitution that states that I have the right to go into a private/public establishment with a large group of other idiots with any kind of weapon. I guess I just understand the necessity for reasonable searches before entering a large group of people or an airplane.

Btw I paid like 28.50 for the game (got a deal on some tickets and carpooled...and I'm not old enough to drink and I dis-like any sporting event food). And I don't know how the Avs could be gross, personally tattoos and crap on the basketball players are gross. But hockey is simply the best sport on earth...so HA there!

[Irving]

Ryan, there have been approximately....2? explosives flown on an airplane in the last ten years, out of 100's of thousands of flights and millions, probably billions of passengers. More people die from airplane crashes each year than from terrorist related incidents on airplanes. Why does that make it necessary to fondle all the passengers? Especially since the cargo in the bottom of the plane is hardly checked?

Also, sporting event or not, people should only be searched if there is a warrant or reasonable suspicion. Being the lucky winner of a random selection is not equal to reasonable suspicion.


Hurley, the Niabrara Shale in Colorado, Wyoming, and South Dakota has as much oil as all of Saudi Arabia, it just isn't as easy to extract. 10 years ago, people started getting excited about being close to the shale oil being economically feasible to extract. Right now, people are working as fast as they can to work deals with oil companies because they (the oil companies) are rolling out their seismic trucks to look for wells to tap in the area. Also, of all the worlds oil production each year, only an average of 13% of it comes from new well discoveries. Like every other natural resource humans have used in all of our history, harvesting technology has progressed at a fast enough rate to allow us to revisit, and extract from previously "dry" wells.

Of course this can't last forever, but that doesn't mean that any of the predictions of us running out of oil in "X" amount of years should be taken very seriously. In order to even make a prediction like that, you have to start by measuring the amount of oil we have in reserve right now today, and calculate how long it will take us to run out using only that. There have been predictions of use running out of oil "in as little as the next 15 years" since the 1950's. It is the same as knowing how many more miles you'll be able to drive before your car runs out of gas, and stressing out over it, as you drive by gas station after gas station.

[Ryan_Th3_K1d]

I understand, that's why the security should be privatized and tighter on all aspects of flying, but I'm still not seeing where my constitutional rights are being violated(the only area i can vaguely see is "unreasonable search and seizure, but I personally find the search reasonable). At sporting events I'm sure there has been stabbings/robberies idiot fans throwing glass beer bottles at players. They don't need a warrant if you allow them to search you, and if you don't allow them to search you then you may leave w/out entrance.

[cysoto]

I don't see anywhere in the constitution that states that I have the right to go into a private/public establishment with a large group of other idiots with any kind of weapon.

You obviously missed the part that reads: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

[Ryan_Th3_K1d]

You obviously missed the part that reads: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I was referring to sporting events, usually private establishments which do have the right to deny you the right to carry a weapon.

[Irving]

For the record Ryan, I don't think sporting event pat downs are very intrusive.

[iamhunter]

Really even here with the "flying is not a right" BS?

Ok, well neither is driving. Neither is riding the bus. and Neither is going into the mall.


So if your all ok with body scans and full body pat downs just to exist on a day-to-day business,

then go ahead.


the fourth amendment protects against unreasonable search and seizure

PERIOD.

there are no "unless there is terrorism"

or "unless engaged in a privileged activity"

clauses in there.

IT'S NEVER. PERIOD. THE END.


Sure court rulings have twisted interpretation over the years. Whether you want to believe that is valid or not is up to you.



Like Benjamin Franklin said. Those who would trade their ESSENTIAL LIBERTY for TEMPORARY SECURITY deserve neither.


You know how many terrorists the TSA have caught in it's existence? ZERO.


Yup, you're trading your "privilege" to fly without getting photographed naked or felt-up for NO REASON AT ALL.


And keep in mind -


Since everyone seems to think it's "OK" because flying is a "PRIVILEGE"

Then keep in mind, following the same line of thought -

Driving is a privelege.

going to the store where you buy food, water, clothing and even *gasp* ammo, is in fact, a privelege.

the power and water that keep your home running are PRIVELEGES.


so go ahead, give it all up because you don't "have" to drive to get to work.

you don't "have" to go to the store to buy food

and you don't "have" to have running water and power to survive.


See how well that works out for you.

[Bailey Guns]

The future defenders of our freedoms and liberties. Great.

[AR_ART]

I won't get into the interpretation of the amendments other than the 2nd amendment...

But I have to agree with those that say flying is not a necessity. That's the individuals choice to fly. Therefore subject themselves to a search...

Do I agree with the TSA methods? NO. Just like alot of our recent laws and decisions, they are reactionary not pro-active.

I also see the flipside of this. IF everyone was to be so-called vigilant. You'd have people constantly making false reports or claims against their neighbor or person in the seat next to them. And I know how we all feel about being detained or searched unnecesarily...

Food and water are not. These are necessities. One may argue that you can go out and can get your own water and not get it through the pipes in your house. But remember, that thing called "water rights".

IMO, there is a huge difference between choosing to fly and subject yourself to a search versus going to the store for food or water.

While I'll agree, most people are dumb, I think people are smart enough to know when enough is enough or has gone to far.

All one has to do is look at our founding fathers...

[Ryan_Th3_K1d]

I guess we just disagree on what's a reasonable search. If you don't like the fact you have to be searched to get on a plane...then DON'T GET ON A PLANE, no one is forcing you to fly! If enough people don't fly then the airlines will go broke and blame the government, isn't capitalism great?

The future defenders of our freedoms and liberties. Great.

Thanks for your vote of confidence! btw great job with defending the freedoms and liberties in your time also!