Jesus is a Liberal Democrat

[ghettodub]

The problem is there are too many useful idiots out there that will (and do!) use Colbert's words/thought processes to live their lives. Colbert's sarcastic analysis will be used to justify their desire to remain atheist/agnostic, or worse, get involved in a church that preaches "social justice".

The same could be said for followers of Pat Robertson and others as well though... And honestly, who cares if someone else is agnostic or atheist (this is an honest question: how does if effect you?)? The most important thing about spirituality and faith is your own personal belief and practice, no matter who or what (or lack of) you worship. If someone is agnostic, shouldn't matter to anyone but themselves. If you don't like their messages or beliefs, don't listen. The important thing should what you believe.

I think people that "claim" to act in the good name of the lord, while doing, saying and preaching horrible shit, are far more destructive to our society, because I think part of what makes us great is the ability to make our own decisions and be different, and it's not my right to judge or damn others based on what they believe or don't believe. Just my .02, and not bashing anyone else's beliefs, so

And yes, I fully expected posting this to create this type of banter

EDIT: I just realized my post could potentially open a whole new can of worms, hehe

[BigBear]

And honestly, who cares if someone else is agnostic or atheist (this is an honest question: how does if effect you?)? The most important thing about spirituality and faith is your own personal belief and practice, no matter who or what (or lack of) you worship. ...

I love these types of discussions... The only thing I can come up with is the "way of life".

I'll try to explain succintly and if I fail, so be it: Someone who believes in "something" may understand their religious beliefs lead to a duty to help someone stuck on the side of the road. Think the Good Samaritan story in the Bible. Someone who does not believe in "something" but lives for themselves or whatever may see that person and just walk on by and the guy dies. The guy could've been Lincoln, Einstien, Bach, etc but the world will never have the pleasure of knowing him because the non-belief guy walked on by.

Now, that being said, that whole "synopsis" is very generalized. I know some GREAT people who have no belief system and some HORRIBLE people who believe they are the World's Best Christian and the Pope is a joke.

But just food for thought in getting that discussion started.

[ghettodub]

I love these types of discussions...

I honestly love talks like these, because it gives me different view points and allows me to understand people on different levels!

[ghettodub]

No problems here! There's a reason we have free will. My only point was that non-thinking people see something like Colbert's piece and use it to justify their own intellectually lazy philosophy of life. I was agnostic myself for a while, until my own experiences convinced me otherwise. I just have little tolerence for anyone who has blind faith is their religious choice -even atheists are taking it on faith that there is no God.

Agreed on that. Unfortunately, I think we're at an age where many people just blindly follow a certain faith or path just because that's how they were raised, or just what "they're supposed to do" (the same can be said for politics as well). The movie Dogma actually had some great points regarding that, how few too many people actually go to church to feel blessed and the grace of god anymore, and it's sad really.

While you have a point about the misuse of religion by some (see Westboro Baptist Church for a recent example), you can not condemn all religion on that basis. American religious charities put more time, effort and money into helping the poor of this world than any government. By your logic we could also condemn atheism (see History of Twentieth Century Russia and China). The real truth is evil people will do evil things through any means available, religious or irreligious.

I will admit that I do tend to lump many western religion type folks in to the same pile, because in my brief time here (and through many people I've met) are just like that. And that is something that I have to work on. I've met very few selfless people who really do good just for the sake of doing good, but when you do meet someone like that, it's pretty special. As i mentioned in my response to Bear, that is why I like to have these talks, because it can really give me examples on why I can or should change my preconceived notions about these folks, as I'm sure they do with me as well.

A big example for that is a girl I used to work with. Nice girl, but very religious, and the kind of person who was very judgmental because I didn't fit in to the same mold as her. The fact that I had tattoos, different beliefs, in her eyes, meant that I was less of a person. I don't think that anyone has the right to judge anyone (even though we all do), and I believe that if Jesus popped up tomorrow, he would be disgusted in some of the things that people do, such as that. My belief in things of that nature is that the most important thing is to just be a good person. Simple as that. But again, as I mentioned before, that example is just from one person that I've met, so unfortunately, I lump many religious folks in to the same bucket. So that is something I need to work on

And we can absolutely through all beliefs, or lack thereof, into the same comment

Ooh, this is a fun topic, I'm glad I posted it now!

[Inconel710]

Being judgmental is easy - getting to know someone and accept them for who they are is tough. Thanks to the military I've spent time in a few different places and had some weird religious conversations. Most awkward one with with a Muslim Army Chaplain while we waited for a flight at the Baghdad airport. This was about the time Israel was pounding the crap out of Lebanon in 2006. He was pretty worked up against Israel until I reminded him we all (Christian, Muslim, and Jew) worship the God of Abraham, it was a shame we all couldn't get along better, and there was reason for anger on both sides. Felt like I was walking through a minefield that night, but it was worth it!

Maybe you just need more exposure to positive religious people. I get mine while getting financial advice. I'm a "devout" listener to Dave Ramsey's show - usually the podcast, but his show isn't hard to find on AM. Who doesn't need financial advice, right?

[Inconel710]

The same could be said for followers of Pat Robertson and others as well though... And honestly, who cares if someone else is agnostic or atheist (this is an honest question: how does if effect you?)? The most important thing about spirituality and faith is your own personal belief and practice, no matter who or what (or lack of) you worship. If someone is agnostic, shouldn't matter to anyone but themselves. If you don't like their messages or beliefs, don't listen.

I think people that "claim" to act in the good name of the lord, while doing, saying and preaching horrible shit, are far more destructive to our society, because I think part of what makes us great is the ability to make our own decisions and be different, and it's not my right to judge or damn others based on what they believe or don't believe. Just my .02, and not bashing anyone else's beliefs, so

And yes, I fully expected posting this to create this type of banter

No problems here! There's a reason we have free will. My only point was that non-thinking people see something like Colbert's piece and use it to justify their own intellectually lazy philosophy of life. I was agnostic myself for a while, until my own experiences convinced me otherwise. I just have little tolerence for anyone who has blind faith is their religious choice -even atheists are taking it on faith that there is no God.

While you have a point about the misuse of religion by some (see Westboro Baptist Church for a recent example), you can not condemn all religion on that basis. American religious charities put more time, effort and money into helping the poor of this world than any government. By your logic we could also condemn atheism (see History of Twentieth Century Russia and China). The real truth is evil people will do evil things through any means available, religious or irreligious.

My personal beliefs are that humans need an unchanging external reference for moral behavior, and that moral behavior is needed to live a good life. Without an unchanging reference that exists no matter how you feel today, we tend to act like a ship without a rudder - heading off in random directions, going wherever our whim takes us. Someone who is not able to, or practiced at, objectively looking at their own behavior and comparing it to a set of principles inevitably screws up their life (willfully or unwillfully). They do things that "seemed like a good idea at the time" without considering the outcomes of their decisions and comparing them to their principles. Then they act surprised when things go wrong.

The debate that will go on forever is exactly what constitutes moral behavior! And I'm not getting involved in that one!