Need Help: Checking/Cleaning Old Firearms...

[BigBear]

lol, I'm not an old gun person. I'll have to go back and get stuff in writing to understand it all.

Apparently, way back some Mosins were taken and converted to a larger chamber and the reciever now bears a "S" stamp in the rollmark. Mine doesn't have this stamp...


However, I can find no mention of "mosin" and "S-stamp" in wikipedia or google....

and I look here: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSerial.htm and see no "S" stamps on their proofings...

[SA Friday]

Some of the older Mosin's from WWI were captured and converted to various 8mm calibers. All Mosin's that were issued to troops shoot 7.62x54r cartridges. This is a slightly larger diameter bullet than the 308. Some Mosin's that has crappy accuracy or were shot out have had the first couple of inches of the crown bored out and made smooth. Some say these bored out guns have crappy accuracy, some say they work just fine... I say it depends on how well they bored out the crown as to if it's a lemon or a peach.

Use a 9mm bore brush if you clean it. A 308 brush is too small.

Don't expect amazing accuracy from it. Mosin's were made fast and cheap. With that said, some Mosin's are real shooters, but they are the exception in this case. Shooting them is cheap as there is ample 7.62x54r surplus ammo out there.

So, go shoot it.

[BigBear]

Some of the older Mosin's from WWI were captured and converted to various 8mm calibers. All Mosin's that were issued to troops shoot 7.62x54r cartridges. This is a slightly larger diameter bullet than the 308. Some Mosin's that has crappy accuracy or were shot out have had the first couple of inches of the crown bored out and made smooth. Some say these bored out guns have crappy accuracy, some say they work just fine... I say it depends on how well they bored out the crown as to if it's a lemon or a peach.

Use a 9mm bore brush if you clean it. A 308 brush is too small.

Don't expect amazing accuracy from it. Mosin's were made fast and cheap. With that said, some Mosin's are real shooters, but they are the exception in this case. Shooting them is cheap as there is ample 7.62x54r surplus ammo out there.

So, go shoot it.

So... come down here and shoot it yourself! I'm still not sure what the guy was talking about in regards to ammo to buy for it! lol.

It's not my gun and I don't expect my BIL wants it to be super accurate. He just wanted it checked out for function, safe to fire etc. I'll let him actually fire it. I was just trying to get info about them since they are in my possession for the time being.


Would still like to get together sometime (in the next 100 years) with you and run a few boxes through my .308 for stuff... ect. "One of these days"...

[SA Friday]

Would still like to get together sometime (in the next 100 years) with you and run a few boxes through my .308 for stuff... ect. "One of these days"...

I have the 12th and 13th off next week (no school, no lab, no work...very rare occurances for me now a days). Pick one and weather permitting, we can meet up at Ben Lomand.

[BigBear]

Gunsmiths, please chime in.

Same firearms as in original post.

BIL never made it up here, but he is on his way now.

Need to clean firearms.



Light rust on the outside of barrel on Mosin. I know to use very fine steel wool (what grade/number?) but what oil/cleaner do I use to remove it? Where to find cheap ammo in the Springs?

Hawkin black powder? What areas are a must for cleaning? Do I use anything special?

Any online manuals for either of these firearms for breakdown? I can get 'em apart but I'd like to have a backup in case I can't get 'em back together... BIL knows nothing about firearms and I barely know anything about these two particular firearms....


Thanks a plenty.

[BPTactical]

Haaay Bear-

If you have ANY doubt whatsoever of the caliber DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SHOOT IT!
It is far easier to "Cast" the chamber and confirm the cartridge than it is to pull a bolt or shrapnel outta your sexy mug!
For the rust try ATF and some blue jean denim. The ATF has real strong detergent properties and as far as the denim, it is plenty strong for some minor buffing action but easy on the finish-use the steel wool only as a last resort. The longer you can keep the rusty spots wet with the ATF, the better.

As far as the smokepole goes-Hot soapy water is the best bet. I like plain old Ivory soap flakes and boiling water. If you can remove the barrel from the stock, great. If you can't and don't want to chance getting the stock wet here is what to do: Get about 18" of vacuum line that will fit tightly on the nipple. Toss the other end in the pan of soap solution (which is on the floor) and with a cleaning jag and wet patch acting like a piston, pump the solution into the bore. Let it set a minute, a binder clip is handy to pinch the line. Let it drain and repeat however many times, changing the soap solution a couple of times until the solution comes out of the bore pretty clean. You will feel the bore getting cleaner, the smoother the pumping action the cleaner it is getting. Rinse the bore with boiling water and let it flash dry and oil it well immediately after.
If it has been sitting awhile with fouling in it count on some rust in the bore. Black powder fouling attracts moisture (Hygroscopic).
If it was I- I would also pull the lock and check for any corrosion/fouling behind the drum/nipple area.
What is the maker on this rifle by chance?

[BigBear]

Haaay Bear-

If you have ANY doubt whatsoever of the caliber DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SHOOT IT!
It is far easier to "Cast" the chamber and confirm the cartridge than it is to pull a bolt or shrapnel outta your sexy mug!
For the rust try ATF and some blue jean denim. The ATF has real strong detergent properties and as far as the denim, it is plenty strong for some minor buffing action but easy on the finish-use the steel wool only as a last resort. The longer you can keep the rusty spots wet with the ATF, the better.

As far as the smokepole goes-Hot soapy water is the best bet. I like plain old Ivory soap flakes and boiling water. If you can remove the barrel from the stock, great. If you can't and don't want to chance getting the stock wet here is what to do: Get about 18" of vacuum line that will fit tightly on the nipple. Toss the other end in the pan of soap solution (which is on the floor) and with a cleaning jag and wet patch acting like a piston, pump the solution into the bore. Let it set a minute, a binder clip is handy to pinch the line. Let it drain and repeat however many times, changing the soap solution a couple of times until the solution comes out of the bore pretty clean. You will feel the bore getting cleaner, the smoother the pumping action the cleaner it is getting. Rinse the bore with boiling water and let it flash dry and oil it well immediately after.
If it has been sitting awhile with fouling in it count on some rust in the bore. Black powder fouling attracts moisture (Hygroscopic).
If it was I- I would also pull the lock and check for any corrosion/fouling behind the drum/nipple area.
What is the maker on this rifle by chance?

BP, you rock dude.

The Black powder rifle is a Thompson center Hawkin remake. It's a .50.... I am able to break it down and remove barrel... I just hope I can remember to re-engingeer the trigger components... may have to take pics as I dissasemble.... Where can I find powder, ball, etc?

The Mosin... I'm a little confused on what caliber it is as when I talked to a different gunsmith to get it checked for suitability of firing, he said something about it being a "preconversion" and only to use a certain type of ammo and blah, blah blah.... I may try to post pics here tomorrow evening to see if you guys can help identify it... but that won't happen till after work.

Also, what is "ATF" and where can I find it? Dicks, Wally World, Ace, etc...


Thanks. I really appreciate it. Hopefully my BIL will too, HAHA. We'll get the cleaning done Sat morn prob and see if we can't shoot it sometime that afternoon if I feel comfortable enough, etc... I understand the ka-boom risk.

No, I don't have life insurance and the wife has dibs on guns.

[StagLefty]

Powder,ball,patches,and caps should be available at Gander or Sportsmans.
Wish I'd known you needed them I sold about $200 worth of components last week. I had enough that I could have donated some to you
Where you been by the way ?

[BPTactical]

ATF= Automatic Transmission Fluid, it doesn't matter what type BTW.
I would question the "appraisal" of 600.00 though.
The T/C "Hawken" is about as close to a Hawken as a Glock is to a 1911. About the closest commercial copy of a true Hawken pattern rifle is the Lyman Plains rifle and at best for a used one you are talking 400ish.

Again on the Moisin- if you have any doubts of the chambering don't attempt to shoot it.

[Marlin]

Missed this the first time around, Must have been doing the battle of the for sale section.

First off, Being that it is a M38, Chances that it was rebored to 8mm is very slim. And if the date on it is post 1942 it's even slimmer. SA is correct about WWI ones. There were a few documented cases where the Romainians rebored captures late in WWII. Been awhile, But I seem to recall them being M44's for the most part.

"Normal" bore size on any nagant is .312. NOT .318 That is starting to get into 8mm territory. Look down the barrel, if it is counterbored that may be the reason for the larger measurement. And if that is the case, Never let that guy touch another rifle. At least not a Nagent

Counterbored just means that they removed the last 2" of rifling out of the bore to "improve" accuracy.

As far as the "S" goes, If the rifle was rearsenaled after WWII, it has a "S" on it. Cyrillic alphabet and all. Just means they fixed the wood, minor repairs to the gun, dipped in cosmo and it sat for 45-50 years.

Chances are it's just fine. But a few "low brow" checks you can do are (If you can get a hold of 7.62X54R round anyway.)
1- Pull the bolt, Check the fit under the extractor should fit with a bit of slop.
2- Drop round in chamber, it should be a decent fit.
3- Using a brand new .30 cal bore brush, run it through the bore, there should be "mild" resistance, But not the kind if you ran it through a .30/06.

If none one of those happens, Then, you may have problems.

Awaiting pic's