Colorado CCW Training Warning

[Eow]

I know I'm going to be in the minority here, but I'm going to get this side of the issue out anyway. There should be NO CCW approved unless the individual has had sufficient training and passed a basic live fire standard. You have to take a written and driving test for a car for god's sake to show understanding and competence. Unfortunately, the law isn't written like that.

It is really sad for me to see stuff like this posted on this forum. If the second amendment is treated with respect anywhere, it should be here. SA Friday, should we also require people to pay for a government permit proving they have taken sensitivity training classes before they are allowed to exercise their first amendment right to free speech?

How can you possibly support the idea of a basic right (not a privilege like driving a car, an individual constitutional right) like this being subject to the government administering and issuing a permit? Don't you believe in the freedoms our forefathers fought and died for? As Benjamin Franklin said: "Those Who Would Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither".

[Irving]

The government needs to be kept out of it. If insurance companies required that all instructors hold a live fire class in order to get their general liability and E&O insurance, then ALL instructors would teach live fire, no one would have a choice, that'd be set as the norm, the government could stay out of it, and everyone would be happy.

I'm a bad shot and know it. I've gone to a few shooting competitions, and would do more, but I've run out of money.

[SA Friday]

It is really sad for me to see stuff like this posted on this forum. If the second amendment is treated with respect anywhere, it should be here. SA Friday, should we also require people to pay for a government permit proving they have taken sensitivity training classes before they are allowed to exercise their first amendment right to free speech?

How can you possibly support the idea of a basic right (not a privilege like driving a car, an individual constitutional right) like this being subject to the government administering and issuing a permit? Don't you believe in the freedoms our forefathers fought and died for? As Benjamin Franklin said: "Those Who Would Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither".

When you ND your mouth, you don't blow a hole in something.

As for putting a basic limitation on a constitutional right, it happens all the time. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater and claim that's covered by the first ammendment after someone is trampled to death. I'm not proposing or discussing a limitation on a constitutional right. I'm advocating competence.

If you feel so strongly about your constitutional right being violated by a basic test, then you should also feel that one should be able to just carry a loaded pistol when ever they wanted and shouldn't require a CCW. I'm cool with that. Try out some civil disobedience with that one and let me know how it turns out.

As for insinuating I'm in any way disrespecting the 2nd ammendment based on my opinion, you're way off base. Check yourself. Disagree with me, debate with me. Don't in one breath tell me how I'm disrespecting the 2nd ammendment, but how awful it is that I can voice my opinion here on this forum in accordance with the 1st ammendment.

[Mtn.man]

voice all you want but the more you let big regulate your life the less you have a right.

[Eow]

As for insinuating I'm in any way disrespecting the 2nd ammendment based on my opinion, you're way off base. Check yourself. Disagree with me, debate with me. Don't in one breath tell me how I'm disrespecting the 2nd ammendment, but how awful it is that I can voice my opinion here on this forum in accordance with the 1st ammendment.

Yes, I believe you are disrespecting the 2nd amendment; I challenge anyone to read your posts and come to a different conclusion. I also support your first amendment right to say what you want, however wrong I believe you are. I'm just disappointed to see someone on a gun forum begging for more government regulation of guns.

[Dalendenver]

I know this is a couple of months too late but let me put in my opinion. I was at Sportsmans Warehouse one day when two (gorgeous) girls were looking for ammunition for the CCW class they were taking that weekend. They were looking in the reloading section and were going to buy a box of 9mm bullets for loading when they got some help. Obviously they didn't know anything about a gun. Fortunately they had signed up with someone that required live fire.

Should the gov require live fire? I don't trust the gov to require anything. Once they get a small requirement in place it is only time until it becomes a larger requirement, it always escalates. Too many politicians justify their job by passing unneeded legislation.

Everyone of you should read the book "More Guns; Less Crime", the most complete study ever done of gun laws and actual events.

I am all for more training but less government. My wife and I are going to take the class soon, we chose a group that does about 5 hours of class followed by 5 hours of range time.

YMMV

Dale

[Adawg38]

Jefferson County has revised their process. I assume as a result of the same audit. New applicants have to provide a copy of your instructor's certificate and instructor's wallet card.

4.) A copy of the instructor's "original certification" certificate and a copy of the "instructor's card" (wallet-size), which shows their certification expiration date.

Jeffco Sheriff's CCW site:
http://www.jeffco.us/sheriff/sheriff_T62_R9.htm

I don't know if this has been talked about more but I am going in this Tues to submit my App and info for my CCW in Jefferson County. I have reviewed many times Jeffcos website and do not see anything different from last year. I definately do not see now that you need an Instructors wallet card. I just ask because I want to make sure I am prepared.

[theGinsue]

I would give them a call and ask to be connected to the office that does the CCW permits - then ask them EXACTLY what you need to bring with you!

Here is their contact info:
Jefferson County Sheriff's Office
200 Jefferson County Parkway
Golden, CO 80401
303-277-0211

[MarkCO]

I provided an ink signed certificate with my NRA cert number on it, the CRS reference and the students full name. No-one has ever asked for a copy of my wallet card. Of course JeffCO has a file on me, but one would think if that was a requirement one of the 2000 or so students of mine who have JeffCO permits, (or the 3000 in other counties) would have been asked. While I do not necessarily agree with the way the law is written, the quickly growing number of irresponsible people does make me nervous. I required a 90 round shoot test after shooting about 200 at the range. Instructors who care about their students will include shooting while those who just care about making some $ as easy as possible won't. Personally, with what has been posted, I would make sure I had the copy of the cert before I went into the Sheriff. If the instructor won't give it to you, he probably is not certified.

[Bailey Guns]

While I do not necessarily agree with the way the law is written, the quickly growing number of irresponsible people does make me nervous. I required a 90 round shoot test after shooting about 200 at the range.

[sarcasm]Well, quite frankly, the last thing I want is armed, nervous people running around loose in society. Nervous people shouldn't have guns...or they should be required to pass an "I'm not nervous any more" test before getting a gun.[/sarcasm]

Instructors who care about their students will include shooting while those who just care about making some $ as easy as possible won't.

And instructors who think like that obviously have an elitist belief that:

• state law is fundamentally flawed (even though there's no evidence the requirements as they now stand are inadequate)
• some people have no God-given right to an adequate means of self-defense (due to physical or financial limitations that might prohibit them from acquiring/completing this type of training)
• bigger government is good
• big brother oversight is good
• most people can't be trusted
• only "we" are smart enough or talented enough to carry guns or train people how to carry guns

I don't have a problem with people getting voluntary training. I also believe it absolutely should not be any more difficult than it already is to get a permit. Despite how "nervous" you are with commoners with minimal training having guns , I seriously doubt you can provide evidence that it's a problem that needs correcting.

Wyoming is on the verge of becoming the third state to say a permit is not needed by a law-abiding person to carry a gun for defense. It's not rocket surgery.