Where are they gay smokers?

[rtr]

As you may know there is a smoking ban working its way through the state legislature, would ban smoking in virtually all bars, restaurants, and other facilities of public accomodation, of course there are exceptions for industries with powerful lobbyists (ie casinos).

Surprisingly I haven't heard a peep from the homosexual advocates supporting another minority that chooses a lifestyle that many see as unhealthly and unpleasant. I wonder why not.

Irregardless its fundamentally a property rights issue. Funny how many see the need to protect certain "rights" (like abortion) but feels free to trample on rights fundamental to our economic system like that of property ownership.

[cheapo]

I doubt that this discussion belongs on the 'General Discussion' board.

However, I don't believe it is a 'lifestyle' issue. I heard some of those same arguments yesterday. If you agree that 'passive smoke' can affect the health of someone who is not smoking, a case can be made for banning smoking. If a gay person stands next to you, your health is not being affected.

The question of property rights seems to be a better argument for smokers. It would seem to be reasonable to ban smoking from all public places that all people have to go to for example government buildings. Private business becomes more gray. The government dictates all sorts of regulations on business to insure some amount of public safety for example building and fire codes, handicap accessibility, codes for bathrooms, kitchens etc. If smoking is a health hazard a government might feel it necessary to regulate it in business that are open to the public in order to better protect its citizens. Private clubs and business would be a different matter.

I don't think there are too many defenders that would say that smoking is not a health hazard. There are just too many studies that say that smoking is bad for your health. But we do lots of things that are bad for our health.

So, rtr it looks like we have to figure out how to balance property rights of a business with the obligations of a government to protect its citizens.

Also, I am somewhat cynical enough to agree in part with car-15 feeling that money does play a role.

[rtr]

So, rtr it looks like we have to figure out how to balance property rights of a business with the obligations of a government to protect its citizens.

Any private place that is a place of public accomodation (business, restaurant, bar, etc.) can allow its patrons to do whatever they want as long as it is legal, and it should stay that way. If a particular restaurant allows smoking and you don't like smoking, don't go there. If you don't like strippers don't go to strip joints.

Public buildings are a different story, courthouses, DMVs, public schools, etc. I'm in favor of banning smoking.

There's no "balancing" to be had, people are responsible for making decisions about their own safety as long as they have the knowledge to do so and in this case one can always tell if there is smoking in the establishment they are in and they can then choose whether to stay or leave. Things like food safety and building standards are not things that a citizen can readily see and determine for themselves, in that case government involvement is ok.

[newracer]

Any private place that is a place of public accomodation (business, restaurant, bar, etc.) can allow its patrons to do whatever they want as long as it is legal, and it should stay that way. If a particular restaurant allows smoking and you don't like smoking, don't go there. If you don't like strippers don't go to strip joints.

Public buildings are a different story, courthouses, DMVs, public schools, etc. I'm in favor of banning smoking.

There's no "balancing" to be had, people are responsible for making decisions about their own safety as long as they have the knowledge to do so and in this case one can always tell if there is smoking in the establishment they are in and they can then choose whether to stay or leave. Things like food safety and building standards are not things that a citizen can readily see and determine for themselves, in that case government involvement is ok.

Just to throw in another aspect of the issue. How about the employees of the businesses? Shouldn't they have a work place that is safe? If your profession is bartending (non-smoker) and all the bars/restaurants allow smoking at the bar what are you to do?

[HunterCO]

I modified your quote just to make a point!

However, I don't believe it is a '2A' issue. I heard some of those same arguments yesterday. If you agree that 'gun fire' can affect the health of someone who is shot, a case can be made for banning guns. If a person stands next to you with out a gun, your health is not being endangered.

Sounds just like Sarah or Rossie don't it. :wink:

As far as this quote it sent chills up my spine.

So, rtr it looks like we have to figure out how to balance property rights of a business with the obligations of a government to protect its citizens.

That is the very reason this country is going down the tubes. I agree with rtr and also would like to ask since when is it the govs job to keep us safe, house us, feed us and baby sit us ect. Simple it's not but more and more people in this country expect this and because of it this country will fail to remain a free nation.

I own a business and what I allow on on my property is my damn business nobody else’s. I do not smoke and do not allow smoking in my waiting area for the sake of my non smoking customers. I however have an area out in my shop were I allow my customers that smoke to smoke.

I am a grown man fully capable of taking care of myself I already have a mother and father. I don't need some jerkoff in a cheap suit with a bad combover passing laws for my safety. I would rather die of lung cancer tomorrow a free man then live to be 200 as a slave to the gov.

[rtr]

Just to throw in another aspect of the issue. How about the employees of the businesses? Shouldn't they have a work place that is safe? If your profession is bartending (non-smoker) and all the bars/restaurants allow smoking at the bar what are you to do?

They don't have to work there. Just as you are free to choose where you buy things, you and everyone else are free to choose where you work. Some jobs are more dangerous than others, everyone is free to choose which job they want to pursue. Making someone work in a bar or anywhere else is called slavery, and is illegal, even if there is no smoking.

[cheapo]

If smoker standing next to me who is not smoking they are not affecting my health. A person with an Uzi under their coat standing next to me is not affecting my health. Smokers can go anywhere they want. A armed person can go anywhere they want (within the limits of their permit). Its the smoking and shooting folks that can affect your health.

By the way HunterCO if you are a business owner you are already a slave of the government. Do you collect taxes from your employees paychecks? File your 941 & 940s? and that insane Ocupational Privilage Tax? Why should you be collecting taxes for the government? Let your employess pay their own damn taxes... you should't have to pay it for them. Did the government help you make any sales today? Were they there helping customers? They sure take a lot of your money for someone that didn't help build your business.

I don't know who Sarah is and if you are chilled put a sweater on or somethinig..... :lol:

As rtr said you can choose with your feet and dollars where you want to work or shop.

[Asha'man]

I don't think the ban applies to smoking pole, so that's why the gays aren't up in arms about it.



Brian

[car-15]

I don't think the ban applies to smoking pole, so that's why the gays aren't up in arms about it.



Brian

from the words of larry the cable guy "I dont care who you are thats funny right there" :lol: :lol: :lol:

[HunterCO]

Cheapo you don't know who Sarah Brady is??? :shock: :wink:

It's a sad day in America when you can smoke pole but not a marblo. :evil:

Yes I have to pay taxes just like everyone else but the reason our taxes are going through the roof is because everybody wants the gov. to baby sit them and that takes money. In return it creates more laws to try and ease the tax burden because people then bitch about taxes.

My point is were does all this madness stop? The same principle as I pointed out in your post is used to make an excuse to ban guns. The USA is heading down a slippery slope and at the bottom is a dictatorship. Want proof look at the UK we are a mirror image of the path they have taken. We are just not as far down that path as they are.

I was just putting in my .02