Utah Man Shot to Death by Police for Raising a Golf Club...

[Byte Stryke]

I Honestly do not feel that the illegal execution of an unlawful entry can be followed by a justified shooting.

So what you are saying is, if at 2am a bunch of storm troopers confused your address with a meth lab and raided your house, you wouldn't try to protect your home as a law abiding citizen?
So your Widow and Orphans will just fend for themselves in the streets?
Because if you are killed by police in a "Clean Shoot" you do know most life insurances will not pay as obviously you had committed an act that voluntarily perpetuated your own death.
I believe the common term is "PD Suicide."

Unless you have a warrant and present it upon entry, you are in violation of the fourth. Thus your illegal entry will be seen as a threat to the safety and welfare of my family and you will be fired upon with extreme prejudice.

CHP/CCW regardless
Come take the guns and I will stab you in the damned neck with a butter knife. I am really sick of the Gestapo tactics and double standards by the Police.


Just my two cents

[OneGuy67]

I Honestly do not feel that the illegal execution of an unlawful entry can be followed by a justified shooting.

Byte, what was illegal? They had a search warrant signed by a judge. Even if they had it on scene at the time, they aren't going to wave it around while executing a rapid entry. It is usually something handed to the resident once the residence and its occupants are secured.

[Elhuero]

Byte, what was illegal? They had a search warrant signed by a judge. Even if they had it on scene at the time, they aren't going to wave it around while executing a rapid entry. It is usually something handed to the resident once the residence and its occupants are secured.

ugh. I'm done here. I don't want to argue.

[Byte Stryke]

well hell lets just search now and worry about the warrant later... I'll take your word for it.

what if you were the shooter? Knowing you had taken the life of an innocent man startled from his sleep by a wrongful entry? he wasn't a drug dealer... he was an innocent man facing a breach of his home.

warrant? yeah we will get that later... trust me.


Show me in a single term how a "no knock raid" doesn't violate reasonable search and seizure.
Justify to me the reasoning why you cannot knock on the door with the building surrounded. whats he going to do? take his family hostage? weigh that against some gestapo ass-clowns killing a little kid and me paying higher taxes for it for the next 80 years when the PD gets sued into bankruptcy

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

take your "Oh, its totally legal" Attitude and check it against the civil rights.

No knock raids have NO PLACE in a civil and constitutional country.

[OneGuy67]

well hell lets just search now and worry about the warrant later... I'll take your word for it.

what if you were the shooter? Knowing you had taken the life of an innocent man startled from his sleep by a wrongful entry? he wasn't a drug dealer... he was an innocent man facing a breach of his home.

warrant? yeah we will get that later... trust me.


Show me in a single term how a "no knock raid" doesn't violate reasonable search and seizure.
Justify to me the reasoning why you cannot knock on the door with the building surrounded. whats he going to do? take his family hostage? weigh that against some gestapo ass-clowns killing a little kid and me paying higher taxes for it for the next 80 years when the PD gets sued into bankruptcy

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

take your "Oh, its totally legal" Attitude and check it against the civil rights.

No knock raids have NO PLACE in a civil and constitutional country.

Whoa! Gettin' some attitude. I asked simply what was illegal. They had a legal warrant at the time of the execution, not after. They had a judges permission to search the home. There was no search now and get a warrant later. His innocence? According to the reports, he wasn't innocent, although he may not have been a dealer. He may have been simply a user, but drugs were dealt out of the house, either by him or his girlfriend who lived with him.

My "Oh, its totally legal" attitude as you state is pretty misguided. Where in the what, three posts I put on this did I say anything at all about it being "totally legal" or that I agreed with the no-knock premise? During the two years I was assigned to the DEA drug task force, we never did a no-knock warrant. They are difficult to get and you have to provide a lot of good reasons why the judge should allow one.

[Irving]

Everything that needs to be said has been covered already.


There is a HUGE disconnect here though. Warrants are for search and seizure right? Or is the killing of people some where in the small print?

Didn't a lady shot at some officers that were conducting a no-knock raid on the wrong house get charged? While every time a person is killed in botched no-knock didn't get any charges at all? Ever?

[OneGuy67]

Everything that needs to be said has been covered already.


There is a HUGE disconnect here though. Warrants are for search and seizure right? Or is the killing of people some where in the small print?

Didn't a lady shot at some officers that were conducting a no-knock raid on the wrong house get charged? While every time a person is killed in botched no-knock didn't get any charges at all? Ever?

There isn't a disconnect. SEARCH warrants are for the search of items that are stolen or embezzled, are designed or intended for use as a means of committing a criminal offense or have been used for committing a criminal offense, are illegal to possess, would be material evidence in a subsequent criminal prosecution or is a person, property or thing the seizure of which is expressly required, authorized or permitted by statute of the State of Colorado or is kept, stored, transported, sold, dispensed or possessed in violation of a statute of of the State of Colorado under circumstances involving a serious threat to public safety, or order, or to the public health. These are the things that can authorize a search warrant by a judge, here in Colorado.



You are associating the two together into one issue and it isn't. An officer may use deadly force if he feels there is a threat to himself or to others. Executing a search warrant is one thing. Being threatened and defending yourself is another. The issue presented here is whether or not the officer was being threatened or felt threatened and had a right of self defense to use deadly force. Lots and lots of search warrants are executed without any issues daily that you don't hear about. Some are as Byte describes and asks about, some are more dynamic, some are extremely mundane.

I can't speak for your first example as I've not heard of any such circumstances here in Colorado, but the second one, there were officers charged, I believe in Atlanta, over a botched no-knock. Although I get a number of police related periodicals, magazines, and emails relating to these out of state events, I don't really follow them too closely because they don't have an effect here in Colorado for Colorado law enforcment.

[Bailey Guns]

You are associating the two together into one issue and it isn't. An officer may use deadly force if he feels there is a threat to himself or to others. Executing a search warrant is one thing. Being threatened and defending yourself is another. The issue presented here is whether or not the officer was being threatened or felt threatened and had a right of self defense to use deadly force.

Exactly. Given ONLY the issue of self-defense in this case, with the circumstances presented to the officer I believe he was justified in shooting to protect himself and others.

A civil court will decide on whether or not they should have been there in the first place and whether the resulting death was justified or not in light of the sloppy police work that lead to the shooting.

In my opinion they shouldn't have been there under those circumstances.