Utah Man Shot to Death by Police for Raising a Golf Club...

[Byte Stryke]

DA Agreed....


as if a DA would ever turn against the Blue line without pressure from above.




Let a DA prosecute a cop without a huge push from above and the DA Commits career suicide.


DA Agreed...



can't



stop



laughing.



I Only have one question for everyone.

How am I Supposed to know when my 4th amendment rights have been revoked with my right to protect my home and my family during a no knock raid?

That's like getting pulled over and finding out your CCW/CHP has been revoked AFTER you are arrested for carrying an illegal concealed weapon.

[Bailey Guns]

I love threads that are long on emotion and short on logic.

I can tell you from experience. If you ever find yourself on the wrong end of a multi-million dollar civil suit as a cop...for something you didn't do...you might think differently about that this whole nonsense about "cops can do anything and get away with it".

I find a lot of the chest thumping here amusing as well. Go ahead and play tough guy with a gun when the cops bust down your door. Have fun while it lasts...cause it won't last long.

Lots of things to laugh at in this thread.

[OneGuy67]

One question for OneGuy67:

If someone kicks your door in at 2 AM, and comes into the house shouting unintelligibly, how would you respond?

I know for damn sure my first response would not be to fall face first on the floor and put my hands on the back of my head.

No knock warrants SHOULD be all but impossible to obtain. Execution of them presents an extreme level of danger for both the officers and the subjects, particularly when the intel used to issue them is suspect (Israel Mena).

Truthfully, I don't know what I would do. Given how hard I sleep, I would probably be still in my bed dazed and confused, trying to shake the cobwebs out of my noggin with the dogs barking like crazy and people shouting at me.

As with everything in our lives, the issue with search warrants is reactive. Because of the Mena issue, judges tightened up the requirements for search warrants even more than they already were. They made obtaining a no-knock warrant more difficult and the reasons for one needed to be spelled out more. I have no issues with any of the things that are required now. Never have. As with everything that usually gets discussed here, it is relative to whether or not it happened in Colorado or not, as the laws are different. Apples and Oranges. Not to say it couldn't happen, but you would have to give a lot of compeling arguments to the judge to get a no-knock on a drug case and given what I've read on this particular case, it probaby would not have been granted here in Colorado.

The one thing I would ask of the members here is this: please don't lump Colorado law enforcement into what you see in other states. Each state is its own entity and has separate laws, rules, educational requirments, etc. With that, please don't lump Colorado law enforcement in with the Denver PD and believe what happens in Denver, happens everywhere. There are 1,500 officers in Denver and another 4,500-5,000 officers (Approximate. There may be more I've forgotten to count towards the number) everywhere else in Colorado. We all don't act like the Denver officers seen on videos recently.

There's a thread on the amount of officers killed recently. Lots of theories as to why, but what tends to be forgotten is that officers are the embodiment of government that most people ever get to see. Food for thought.

[Byte Stryke]

So I Will ask again,


How am I to know that my right to defend my home against intrusion has been revoked for a no knock raid?



I believe this is a Police-state tactic.

"Well we broke into his home in the middle of the night screaming, unannounced, he should have known!"

I Still do not buy it and think that short of absolute proof of some sort of large scale destructive device... knock on the fucking door and serve the warrant first.

[Graves]

Wow, whole lotta "no experience, but I'll judge anyhow" in this thread.

Welcome to the internet Kelly.

[Bailey Guns]

I'm not real thrilled with the quality of the warrant in this case, but the shoot itself was good. Sorry.

Welcome to the Dark Side.

[OneGuy67]

So I Will ask again,


How am I to know that my right to defend my home against intrusion has been revoked for a no knock raid?



I believe this is a Police-state tactic.

"Well we broke into his home in the middle of the night screaming, unannounced, he should have known!"

I Still do not buy it and think that short of absolute proof of some sort of large scale destructive device... knock on the fucking door and serve the warrant first.

Truthfully and I'm really not being sarcastic...don't do anything like selling drugs out of your house that would cause you to be on the police radar. It becomes a police state when normal, law abiding citizens are having their doors caved in and not just those who are involved in activities THAT ARE CRIMINAL.

This naturally segues into the next topic of people's belief that all cops are corrupt and will plant evidence and lie on affivadits regularly "just to get you". Please go ahead and continue the anti-cop rant.

[Marlin]

This naturally segues into the next topic of people's belief that all cops are corrupt and will plant evidence and lie on affivadits regularly "just to get you". Please go ahead and continue the anti-cop rant.

Not all are. But, the ones that are, and do, need to be delt with severly, and not Protected at all costs by the union. Because, Like everything else, there are just some people who should not be cops.

[TFOGGER]

I'm not blaming the officer, I'm blaming the process, and the judge that signed off on a no knock warrant, when it clearly wasn't ...er...warranted. Even IF the subject had 2 ounces of heroin, clearly, this isn't going to be a record drug bust for the "Strike Force". This guy was NOT a major player, their intel was horrible, execution sucked, and a man lost his life over it. The officer did exactly what he was trained to do. The problem is that he was placed in a situation, needlessly, that forced him to rely on his training. We're big on constitutional rights on this forum, and we talk a lot about our First and Second Amendment rights, but what has happened to the Fourth Amendment? This was obviously a big deal for the founding fathers, why should it be any less so with us? And how do sealed warrants and confidential informants reconcile with the Sixth Amendment? When do we finally say that the Bill of Rights applies to all of the people all of time? I realize the guy who was killed was no angel, he had a well documented history of (minor) criminal activity. Does that mean that he should die based on shaky intel and vague accusations, just because he chose to try to protect himself from parties unknown invading his home in the middle of the night?

/rambling rant

[Bailey Guns]

No, it doesn't mean the guy should've died. However, there's a process in place called the court system. That system is in place to deal with inappropriate police behavior.

You deal with a bad warrant, 4th amendment violation, etc...when you go to court. Not by raising a potentially lethal weapon over your head as if you mean to strike an armed police officer with it. Courts frequently rule against cops in search and seizure activities. If it's bad, it'll likely come to light in a courtroom.

The guy had a history of making bad decisions. This was just another in a long line. And who knows? Maybe he was under the influence of various drugs when this whole thing happened.