Egypt

[Not_A_Llama]

There is no assurance that Sharia law or a fundamentalist Muslim government will come to power. We could be working to help ensure a smooth transition to a secular democracy.

The shit thing about protests and exercises of democracy is that the other side never views it as such. If the people of Egypt want Sharia law, it would be the right thing to not intervene.

It certainly appears that's what (at least a large portion) wants.

[Bailey Guns]

The shit thing about protests and exercises of democracy is that the other side never views it as such. If the people of Egypt want Sharia law, it would be the right thing to not intervene.

It certainly appears that's what (at least a large portion) wants.

Or, at least that's what the most vocal and visible of the protesters would have you believe. I'm skeptical that's what the average Joe in Egypt really wants.

I, too, am failing to see an upside here. And I sure as hell don't have an answer.

[Not_A_Llama]

Here's the thing, though.

Most of Egypt is Muslim. 80-90%, by Wikipedia's stats. Most Egyptian muslims that I know are at least fairly observant. Much more observant than most American Christians, anyway. You cannot have a secular democracy (drawn from the people) in that environment. Autocratic governance against the will of the people is the only way you get secularism when your population is strongly religious. If i were to pick some examples offhand, I'd say Saddam-era Iraq, non-recent Turkey, and... well, Egypt.

I have trouble labeling religious laws like Sharia as wrong when we ourselves have religious laws that're codified and respected in our "secular" laws. Agree with them or not, we in our ostensibly-secular democracy still have religious-influence like no alcohol/cars on Sunday, swearing of oaths on bibles, "In God We Trust", adultery laws, gay non-marriage, religious discrimination in the military (AF academy), etc, etc, etc.

It's hard to respect the notion that we choose to help democracy when it conforms to our standards. When rule of law is drawn from different people, different laws appear. If we want to brand ourselves as guardians of democracy, that can't come with the stipulation "unless you live differently from us". I think honestly, that path's fucked us in the past (Ngo Dinh Diem, right?) with our banana republic anti-democratic binge. We're bad defenders of democracy. We're OK defenders of American interests, which is really how we should brand ourselves - "we're not always on the right, but rise with us".

[Hoosier]

Here's real coverage, quite interesting stuff. The Egyptian military has rolled in to Cairo, and is being cheered and welcomed by the people. They surrounded the tanks and made the guys shake hands with everyone in the crowd. Appears the military has setup defensive positions around the main TV station, but no one is really sure where it'll fall. The military might be our best hope for getting a secular government setup.

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

Also interesting to look for ideological bent in the reporting from Al Jazeera. I certainly prefer their showing actual footage instead of showing talking heads.

H.

[TS12000]

I was watching that aljazeera stream this morning, pretty chilling to see people stop mid-riot to pray then get up and start torching buildings and cars.

[Byte Stryke]

Just guessing... but by the actions of the Military they are essentially remaining neutral.
They are protecting Embassies, but not enforcing curfew nor are they moving on the capital.

Politically this is a VERY Wise move, If a foreign superpower embassy is taking then that prompts that superpower to move and act. As no Embassies are threatened, no one has cause to step in and intervene. It remains entirely a civil matter.

[roberth]

The United States needs to stay out.

We cannot give people liberty, they have to want it. If enough of the Egyptian people want liberty bad enough they'll get it.

Slightly OT, I heard some muslim on the radio saying that Christians were attacking muslims in Egypt. What a pack of lies. The last report I heard was that muslims were murdering Coptics. Islam can kiss my arse.