finally some sense about global warming

[spyder]

[quote=Aloha_Shooter;298991]They started calling it "climate change" because they got caught trying to say the Earth was warming when temperatures have visibly declined.

I learned back in school that the arguement of global warming was about what the warming affect in the warmer months does to the weather patterns, or climate. There was no mention of "climate change" back then. Also, I don't know where you have been, but it has also been noted globally that since the mid 90's, the temperature has gone up, in record numbers. Not new news on that one.


Nice try. Too bad for you that satellite observations show Antarctica's ice sheet is growing.
I would have to say here that you are wrong. I don't know where you are getting your information from, but if you are going to attack what it is that I said, you should get your info strait. Otherwise, you look like a jack ass. Here is a quote strait from NASA, you know, the people with the satellites lookin down: "Gravity data collected from space using NASA's Grace satellite show that Antarctica has been losing more than a hundred cubic kilometers (24 cubic miles) of ice each year since 2002. The latest data reveal that Antarctica is losing ice at an accelerating rate, too."
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fea...a_Melting.html



Arctic polar ice has been melting. Antarctic has been growing.

Again, not to point out that you are wrong, but, you are. They are both melting. Actual scientific data proves this.

I think that if you're going to engage in a discussion like this, you need to understand some basic science. Funny I posted a recent comment about how people shouldn't sound like morons by talking shit. I graduated from Worcester Polytechnic Institure with a degree in Biotechnology. You might be right though, maybe that doesn't make me a good candidate to talk about science... Pull your head out. Carbon is not an evil element -- it's the basis of life as we know it. In fact, carbon dioxide promotes plant growth which is the root of most food chains on Earth. Did I say Carbon was evil? I don't remember saying that...

Fact: The Earth has been much warmer in the past, even the recent past, than it is today. Fact: Your fact is wrong, don't post ignorant shit that is supposed to be used to debunk someone else or make them look stupid, otherwise, you look like the stupid one. Beyond the well-documented warm spells of the 1930s and 1910s, the "warming" often cited by unthinking environmentalists is part of several long term cycles including the recovery from a severe local minima during the Little Ice Age. Prior to the decline that resulted in the Little Ice Age, Great Britain and Greenland hosted vineyards (one of the reasons Michael Mann has been using "tricks" to try to "get rid" of the Medieval Warming Period.

Fact: While ten years is a period indicative of weather rather than climate, the General Circulation Models in use at the CRU still fail to predict the last ten years of cooling (if you listen to Gavin Schmidt and James Hansen, this was one of the warmest years on record -- good thing for them they get to cook the books before anyone else can see them!). The GCMs may have been updated this year to account for the feedback mechanism of cloud formation but as of last year they didn't.
Really? Where do you get your info from?

Fact: Carbon dioxide isn't even the most powerful greenhouse gas. Didn't say it was. Water vapor is far more powerful WRT heat retention. Greens target carbon dioxide because it gives them the leverage to control every aspect of an industrial economy. Yet another ignorant sentence...

IMO Anthropogenic Global Warming is the greatest scientific fraud in the history of science. and alligators are so angry because they have so many teeth and no tooth brush right? Because, mama said so![/quote]
Don't quote me again please unless you are going to try to be a little more intelligent about it. You guys can argue all you want, but if you are going to directly argue against something someone says, do it intelligently. If you have a good arguement, I would like to hear it. Really, I would, I didn't mean to come off with that last part sounding snide.

[DOC]

We should all remember what they taught us in school about trees eating up the co2 and how its gets absorbed into the Oceans. I don't know what they are teaching the children today but I'm sure the liberal dickheads in school are teaching the young all about the liberal agenda since there are more people going to college to make millions then to teach the young.

They just hate cars and want to be the only ones that have them. I bet cha.

[Marlin]

I'll just leave this here;


http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1865.htm



Full in the knowledge that you will believe what you want to believe, and nothing that contradicts that belief will hold any merit in your opinion.


I do feel sorry for you..

[DeusExMachina]

I don't get some of the arguements and comments made on some of these posts... For some of you I don't think anyone can change your mind on the topic because you apparently know everything, right? Once again like I see people say all the time, list a source other than some reporter that doesn't know a damn thing saying the same ignorant comment my 5 year old pops off with of "it's cold, so, there is no such thing as global warming/climate change" because that is completely ignorant. You might as well say that global warming/climate change doesn't exist because your mama said so. I could list countless studies done by NASA, Harvard, Stanford, numerous other legit scientific communities and way too many other credible sources that have had actual data on this subject. Like I said though, for many of you it wouldn't matter who or what came up with the data, you would blindly turn your head away and walk off. I guess everyone is out to get your "briliant" minds that don't need any actual information about a subject to know that what you think about it is right. I don't even know why some of you even post in threads like this. Your mind is set, and you just want to argue instead of trying to have an intelligent conversation. Some of you make retarded jack ass comments toward others because of the way they think. What's up with that? Pull your head out and stop trying to be pricks. Most of the time, those that attack others in these forums just sound really immature and stupid. I originally posted in this thread expecting an intellectual discussion, not a bunch of whiney butt hurt people talking about things that they don't appear to actually know anything about till they google it right before they post a comment. As amusing as some of the comments on here are, I would really like to see proof. Not because I don't believe you, well, I guess it is because I don't believe you, but if the actual study or science behind your comment makes more sense than what I have read or believe, I could make up my mind for myself on rather or not to change what it is that I believe in.

I think its because it has become such a partisan issue. Some people are so hard-line on their party that everyone else is wrong, and worse, not even credible. Unless its coming from "their side", its completely wrong or some sort of secret agenda to undermine their way of life. So there is absolutely no way a discussion can take place.

Instead of looking at facts, they look at the people reporting the facts, or the people that agree with one side. Claims that one side is only trying to make a profit seem to forget that the other side stands to make a profit if they get their way, too.

I think this sort of partisan division on important issues is what is destroying this country.

Apply previous statements to: Global warming, gun control, the economy, health care, etc.

[BigBear]

It has been stated that climate change can take thousands, if not millions of years to come about naturally. The argument is that mankind is speeding up that process. I can sort of understand that thought. However, there is also a caveat inserted into the whole arguement that the world indeed does go through a heating and cooling cycles. Heck we even name periods of time after them, "Ice Age" anyone? These have been proven, time and time again. This is not what people argue about.

The real arguement is whether the amount of "helping along" of this process by mankind is anything to be worried about. I personally think not. But you are welcome to your own observations. It's hard to change people's minds, especially where one is trying to "prove something" that the other person just doesn't care about. Tell a farmer to turn in his dually for a smart car.... ain't going to happen.

[TFOGGER]

Do you know for certain that doubling the amount of CO2 has not and will not have negative ramifications?

And Marlin, I think the hole in the ozone layer has shrunk due to recent efforts. Maybe I'm an optimist.

Let's take a run at that fiasco, shall we:

The eruption of Mt. St. Helens belched a huge amount of ozone depleting gases into the upper atmosphere. The elimination of R-12 led to its replacement with a vastly more toxic refrigerant, at a cost of BILLIONS to consumers. Ice cores seem to indicate that cyclical thinning of the Antarctic ozone layer has been going on for hundreds of thousands of years. So, did we do any good?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being a good steward of this planet, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that exchanging one flawed technology for another is really benefiting anyone other than those selling the technology....

[weirjf]

I don't get some of the arguements and comments made on some of these posts... For some of you I don't think anyone can change your mind on the topic because you apparently know everything, right? Once again like I see people say all the time, list a source other than some reporter that doesn't know a damn thing saying the same ignorant comment my 5 year old pops off with of "it's cold, so, there is no such thing as global warming/climate change" because that is completely ignorant. You might as well say that global warming/climate change doesn't exist because your mama said so. I could list countless studies done by NASA, Harvard, Stanford, numerous other legit scientific communities and way too many other credible sources that have had actual data on this subject. Like I said though, for many of you it wouldn't matter who or what came up with the data, you would blindly turn your head away and walk off. I guess everyone is out to get your "briliant" minds that don't need any actual information about a subject to know that what you think about it is right. I don't even know why some of you even post in threads like this. Your mind is set, and you just want to argue instead of trying to have an intelligent conversation. Some of you make retarded jack ass comments toward others because of the way they think. What's up with that? Pull your head out and stop trying to be pricks. Most of the time, those that attack others in these forums just sound really immature and stupid. I originally posted in this thread expecting an intellectual discussion, not a bunch of whiney butt hurt people talking about things that they don't appear to actually know anything about till they google it right before they post a comment. As amusing as some of the comments on here are, I would really like to see proof. Not because I don't believe you, well, I guess it is because I don't believe you, but if the actual study or science behind your comment makes more sense than what I have read or believe, I could make up my mind for myself on rather or not to change what it is that I believe in.

The global warming community lost most people because they were in the streets with "proof" that the overall temperature of the globe was rising because increased carbon emissions were insulating the earth from allowing surface heat to escape. Either it is or it isn't. Then they changed it to "climate change" but didn't change their definition of the cause. Then we add the issues of the strongest cases being full of fictional findings to make their case and the very next year they changed it from "global warming" to "climate change".

The polar ice caps are reducing? The areas south of them are getting record low temperatures. Maybe it is something else? Maybe it is part of the natural flow of climate change that has been going on since the beginning? It doesn't instill confidence in their theories and until they can prove that it is something we are causing and can fix, I can't rationalize throwing the amount money at it that we are. I can't support carbon credits based on it, smart grids planned to be used as a control tool to tax people more rather than just efficient use of electricity.

Global Warming, Climate Change... whatever... same as a gun; how you use it determines on how people are going to perceive it. I see it more as a tool of control and making money than saving the planet.

[Marlin]

And Marlin, I think the hole in the ozone layer has shrunk due to recent efforts. Maybe I'm an optimist.

You are, It still more or less the same size it was 35 years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being a good steward of this planet, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that exchanging one flawed technology for another is really benefiting anyone other than those selling the technology....

This, Prior to schools becoming the left wing indoctrnation centers, I learned that weather was a one day occurance and climate was an average of those one day occurances over a 25 year period. Now when you realize that weather records in thier current form, only go back about 150 years or so, That isn't that much data to be basing some of the GW claims off of. From what I learned the earth has cycles, sometimes it will be warm and dry., and, others it will be cold and wet.

My only real problem with the GW/CC crowd is they have turn it into a way of pushing their agenda. And, just to many of them have been caught fudging the numbers to acheive their goal. Which, to me, seems to be the fleecing of the flock. I can accept CC to a degree, just not the radical degree that they would want me too. Do I think that we, as humankind have an effect on it? Maybe, a small fraction of a fraction, compared to solar flares, and the gravatational pull of the moon.

When Albert the nerd is now running around stating the global warming is causing all the snow, Kind of loses a bunch of credibilty with me.

[funkfool]

"Now, with concentrations of greenhouse gases rising, Earth's remaining ice sheets (such as Greenland and Antarctica) are starting to melt too. The extra water could potentially raise sea levels significantly."

OK... their understanding of the basic propeties of physics are off a bit - just to try to fool the ignorant masses.
Ice floats, even polar ice caps float.
When floating ice melts, it does not change the water level.
Put a block of ice in a glass of water and watch it.
It is called "displacement"... use the brain God gave you... look it up.

[Hoosier]

OK... their understanding of the basic propeties of physics are off a bit - just to try to fool the ignorant masses.
Ice floats, even polar ice caps float.
When floating ice melts, it does not change the water level.
Put a block of ice in a glass of water and watch it.
It is called "displacement"... use the brain God gave you... look it up.

The ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica aren't floating, they're sitting on land, called Greenland and Antarctica.

Mother nature is capable of some surprises still: http://www.livescience.com/environme...nd-110117.html

I think what a lot of people fail to grasp is exactly how much greenhouse gas humans are putting out. In our head, we think of all the people we know, we think of all the places we've been, and that 100 miles of atmosphere above our head the entire time. We think there's no conceivable way humans can affect it. I've heard it said before that a single Volcano eruption puts out more greenhouse gasses than all of humankind...

Do the Earth’s volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities? Research findings indicate that the answer to this frequently asked question is a clear and unequivocal, “No.” Human activities, responsible for some 36,300 million metric tons of CO2 emissions in 2008 [Le Quéré et al., 2009], release at least a hundred times more CO2 annually than all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2010).

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php

There is of course lots of "information" about the subject online now, and as polarized as the debate has become it's difficult to find unbiased sources. Of course, political rhetoric has entered into the realm of scientific inquiry, so the result is unlikely to be pretty.

H.