finally some sense about global warming

[DeusExMachina]

Yes it is. Small portion of CO2 does not kill, while the other does.

Do you know for certain that doubling the amount of CO2 has not and will not have negative ramifications?

And Marlin, I think the hole in the ozone layer has shrunk due to recent efforts. Maybe I'm an optimist.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Do you know for certain that doubling the amount of CO2 has not and will not have negative ramifications?
.

And obviously you are the genius that will say it will?

[jason303]

I don't understand all the science everyone has figured out, but I do understand Al Gore heating and cooling his many houses each 10x at least the size of mine speaks loudly of his motivation, and that drowns out his credibility... assuming he has any.

[spyder]

I don't get some of the arguements and comments made on some of these posts... For some of you I don't think anyone can change your mind on the topic because you apparently know everything, right? Once again like I see people say all the time, list a source other than some reporter that doesn't know a damn thing saying the same ignorant comment my 5 year old pops off with of "it's cold, so, there is no such thing as global warming/climate change" because that is completely ignorant. You might as well say that global warming/climate change doesn't exist because your mama said so. I could list countless studies done by NASA, Harvard, Stanford, numerous other legit scientific communities and way too many other credible sources that have had actual data on this subject. Like I said though, for many of you it wouldn't matter who or what came up with the data, you would blindly turn your head away and walk off. I guess everyone is out to get your "briliant" minds that don't need any actual information about a subject to know that what you think about it is right. I don't even know why some of you even post in threads like this. Your mind is set, and you just want to argue instead of trying to have an intelligent conversation. Some of you make retarded jack ass comments toward others because of the way they think. What's up with that? Pull your head out and stop trying to be pricks. Most of the time, those that attack others in these forums just sound really immature and stupid. I originally posted in this thread expecting an intellectual discussion, not a bunch of whiney butt hurt people talking about things that they don't appear to actually know anything about till they google it right before they post a comment. As amusing as some of the comments on here are, I would really like to see proof. Not because I don't believe you, well, I guess it is because I don't believe you, but if the actual study or science behind your comment makes more sense than what I have read or believe, I could make up my mind for myself on rather or not to change what it is that I believe in.

[DeusExMachina]

I don't get some of the arguements and comments made on some of these posts... For some of you I don't think anyone can change your mind on the topic because you apparently know everything, right? Once again like I see people say all the time, list a source other than some reporter that doesn't know a damn thing saying the same ignorant comment my 5 year old pops off with of "it's cold, so, there is no such thing as global warming/climate change" because that is completely ignorant. You might as well say that global warming/climate change doesn't exist because your mama said so. I could list countless studies done by NASA, Harvard, Stanford, numerous other legit scientific communities and way too many other credible sources that have had actual data on this subject. Like I said though, for many of you it wouldn't matter who or what came up with the data, you would blindly turn your head away and walk off. I guess everyone is out to get your "briliant" minds that don't need any actual information about a subject to know that what you think about it is right. I don't even know why some of you even post in threads like this. Your mind is set, and you just want to argue instead of trying to have an intelligent conversation. Some of you make retarded jack ass comments toward others because of the way they think. What's up with that? Pull your head out and stop trying to be pricks. Most of the time, those that attack others in these forums just sound really immature and stupid. I originally posted in this thread expecting an intellectual discussion, not a bunch of whiney butt hurt people talking about things that they don't appear to actually know anything about till they google it right before they post a comment. As amusing as some of the comments on here are, I would really like to see proof. Not because I don't believe you, well, I guess it is because I don't believe you, but if the actual study or science behind your comment makes more sense than what I have read or believe, I could make up my mind for myself on rather or not to change what it is that I believe in.

I think its because it has become such a partisan issue. Some people are so hard-line on their party that everyone else is wrong, and worse, not even credible. Unless its coming from "their side", its completely wrong or some sort of secret agenda to undermine their way of life. So there is absolutely no way a discussion can take place.

Instead of looking at facts, they look at the people reporting the facts, or the people that agree with one side. Claims that one side is only trying to make a profit seem to forget that the other side stands to make a profit if they get their way, too.

I think this sort of partisan division on important issues is what is destroying this country.

Apply previous statements to: Global warming, gun control, the economy, health care, etc.

[BigBear]

It has been stated that climate change can take thousands, if not millions of years to come about naturally. The argument is that mankind is speeding up that process. I can sort of understand that thought. However, there is also a caveat inserted into the whole arguement that the world indeed does go through a heating and cooling cycles. Heck we even name periods of time after them, "Ice Age" anyone? These have been proven, time and time again. This is not what people argue about.

The real arguement is whether the amount of "helping along" of this process by mankind is anything to be worried about. I personally think not. But you are welcome to your own observations. It's hard to change people's minds, especially where one is trying to "prove something" that the other person just doesn't care about. Tell a farmer to turn in his dually for a smart car.... ain't going to happen.

[weirjf]

I don't get some of the arguements and comments made on some of these posts... For some of you I don't think anyone can change your mind on the topic because you apparently know everything, right? Once again like I see people say all the time, list a source other than some reporter that doesn't know a damn thing saying the same ignorant comment my 5 year old pops off with of "it's cold, so, there is no such thing as global warming/climate change" because that is completely ignorant. You might as well say that global warming/climate change doesn't exist because your mama said so. I could list countless studies done by NASA, Harvard, Stanford, numerous other legit scientific communities and way too many other credible sources that have had actual data on this subject. Like I said though, for many of you it wouldn't matter who or what came up with the data, you would blindly turn your head away and walk off. I guess everyone is out to get your "briliant" minds that don't need any actual information about a subject to know that what you think about it is right. I don't even know why some of you even post in threads like this. Your mind is set, and you just want to argue instead of trying to have an intelligent conversation. Some of you make retarded jack ass comments toward others because of the way they think. What's up with that? Pull your head out and stop trying to be pricks. Most of the time, those that attack others in these forums just sound really immature and stupid. I originally posted in this thread expecting an intellectual discussion, not a bunch of whiney butt hurt people talking about things that they don't appear to actually know anything about till they google it right before they post a comment. As amusing as some of the comments on here are, I would really like to see proof. Not because I don't believe you, well, I guess it is because I don't believe you, but if the actual study or science behind your comment makes more sense than what I have read or believe, I could make up my mind for myself on rather or not to change what it is that I believe in.

The global warming community lost most people because they were in the streets with "proof" that the overall temperature of the globe was rising because increased carbon emissions were insulating the earth from allowing surface heat to escape. Either it is or it isn't. Then they changed it to "climate change" but didn't change their definition of the cause. Then we add the issues of the strongest cases being full of fictional findings to make their case and the very next year they changed it from "global warming" to "climate change".

The polar ice caps are reducing? The areas south of them are getting record low temperatures. Maybe it is something else? Maybe it is part of the natural flow of climate change that has been going on since the beginning? It doesn't instill confidence in their theories and until they can prove that it is something we are causing and can fix, I can't rationalize throwing the amount money at it that we are. I can't support carbon credits based on it, smart grids planned to be used as a control tool to tax people more rather than just efficient use of electricity.

Global Warming, Climate Change... whatever... same as a gun; how you use it determines on how people are going to perceive it. I see it more as a tool of control and making money than saving the planet.

[TFOGGER]

Do you know for certain that doubling the amount of CO2 has not and will not have negative ramifications?

And Marlin, I think the hole in the ozone layer has shrunk due to recent efforts. Maybe I'm an optimist.

Let's take a run at that fiasco, shall we:

The eruption of Mt. St. Helens belched a huge amount of ozone depleting gases into the upper atmosphere. The elimination of R-12 led to its replacement with a vastly more toxic refrigerant, at a cost of BILLIONS to consumers. Ice cores seem to indicate that cyclical thinning of the Antarctic ozone layer has been going on for hundreds of thousands of years. So, did we do any good?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being a good steward of this planet, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that exchanging one flawed technology for another is really benefiting anyone other than those selling the technology....

[Marlin]

And Marlin, I think the hole in the ozone layer has shrunk due to recent efforts. Maybe I'm an optimist.

You are, It still more or less the same size it was 35 years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for being a good steward of this planet, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that exchanging one flawed technology for another is really benefiting anyone other than those selling the technology....

This, Prior to schools becoming the left wing indoctrnation centers, I learned that weather was a one day occurance and climate was an average of those one day occurances over a 25 year period. Now when you realize that weather records in thier current form, only go back about 150 years or so, That isn't that much data to be basing some of the GW claims off of. From what I learned the earth has cycles, sometimes it will be warm and dry., and, others it will be cold and wet.

My only real problem with the GW/CC crowd is they have turn it into a way of pushing their agenda. And, just to many of them have been caught fudging the numbers to acheive their goal. Which, to me, seems to be the fleecing of the flock. I can accept CC to a degree, just not the radical degree that they would want me too. Do I think that we, as humankind have an effect on it? Maybe, a small fraction of a fraction, compared to solar flares, and the gravatational pull of the moon.

When Albert the nerd is now running around stating the global warming is causing all the snow, Kind of loses a bunch of credibilty with me.

[spyder]

I think its because it has become such a partisan issue. Some people are so hard-line on their party that everyone else is wrong, and worse, not even credible. Unless its coming from "their side", its completely wrong or some sort of secret agenda to undermine their way of life. So there is absolutely no way a discussion can take place.
Ya, I think you are correct in this. Even if someone from "their side" agreed with "our side" they would just say that person has been "changed" and then blow off what they are saying.
Instead of looking at facts, they look at the people reporting the facts, or the people that agree with one side. Claims that one side is only trying to make a profit seem to forget that the other side stands to make a profit if they get their way, too.
Their side, if we are apparently taking sides now, has been making a ton of money this entire time and only argues the issue, because they stand to lose even more money.
I think this sort of partisan division on important issues is what is destroying this country.
You know, it's funny, one side says, "hey we will listen to your arguements, state facts and tell us how you reached your decision so we can discuss it" and the other side just says "screw you, you are wrong, we are right, we don't care". Isn't that just funny.
Apply previous statements to: Global warming, gun control, the economy, health care, etc.