Hospitals in AZ potentially to require proof of citizenship

[Byte Stryke]

I don't understand, are we giving free rides to illegal immigrants? What about legal immigrants? I'm pretty sure either way they have to be working to provide for themselves. Is there some gubmint program to feed and house them all?

For the record, I think the bill says the people get treated and then their immigration status is determined. They aren't going to start dumping people out the back of the hospital if they're a furriner.

H.

Just as an FYI
LEGAL immigrants on their own Identification are not eligible for most government assistance programs.
When I first got canned and hadn't been approved for unemployment yet, I was drawing foodstamps.
They wouldn't even count my legal immigrant wife as a member of the family for calculating the amount.

No Medicare/Medicaid, no food-stamps, nothing as far as I know.

I don't know about ALL of the programs, but the ones I had requested were listed above.

[mutt]

As for the Irish immigrant analogy, doesn't work because the Irish immigrants had every intention of Staying here. Not coming here, exploiting the system making as much tax free money as possible while shipping it all home for their retirement.

"The Irish fill our prisons, our poor houses (the only form of welfare at the time)...Scratch a convict or a pauper, and the chances are that you tickle the skin of an Irish Catholic. Putting them on a boat and sending them home would end crime in this country." - The Chicago Post.

Seems Americans of that time didn't think too highly of the Irish. The Irish were also accused of refusing to assimilate into American society, fiercely holding on to their Irish identity (true). Their loyalty to America was also questioned since they are all Catholic and Catholics only have allegiance to The Pope in Rome. See the pattern? Every new group is demonized in some way.

I highly doubt every Mexican immigrant (legal and illegal) is planning to return to Mexico in their golden years. If Mexico was a place worth retiring to, they wouldn't have left to begin with. Will a measurable percentage go home? Sure. For some home is home, even if it is a shit hole. But I think we'll find, especially amongst their children and grandchildren, they'll chose to stay here, their new home. With each passing generation they'll have less and less in common with Mexico and identify themselves more and more as American (but I'm sure they'll still party on Cinco De Mayo). My Dad's side of the family is Irish, came here during the Great Potato Famine. I hardly think of myself as an Irishman. I'm sure my Great Grandpa and Uncles would have identified differently. Assimilation takes time.

[BigBear]

My Dad's side of the family is Irish, came here during the Great Potato Famine. I hardly think of myself as an Irishman. I'm sure my Great Grandpa and Uncles would have identified differently. Assimilation takes time.

Two questions:

1. How did they come here?

- I suspect, "bye boat, through LEGAL means" END OF THREAD.


2. What did they do when they came here?

- I suspect "Found jobs and became self sufficient. Contributed to a better life here in America for their family and friends. TRIED to fit in, wanted to learn and contribute." END OF THREAD.

[mutt]

Yes, but it's still ILLEGAL immigration. The story is getting twisted. It's illegal and they are committing crimes and being set free. I don't care if they were white, black, purple, blue or from Mars. It's ILLEGAL and they are getting away with it BECAUSE they are ILLEGAL. Enforce the damn rules/laws we have in place. Make an example out of a few and the majority will learn.

The other folks came here LEGALLY (there is always exceptions) to better their lives. They didn't use the system and send the money away to another country (unless they were bringing their families over too. Etc. There are always rotten apples, but they wanted to contribute to a NEW AMERICAN experience, not bring little italy, china, etc here.

I totally agree with enforcing the laws of the land. But it's not an EMT or doctor's job to do so. That is the purvey of the federal government, and they're failing miserably at it on purpose. There's money to be made.

[BigBear]

I totally agree with enforcing the laws of the land. But it's not an EMT or doctor's job to do so. That is the purvey of the federal government, and their failing miserably at it on purpose. There's money to be made.

Truth....

[mutt]

Two questions:

1. How did they come here?

- I suspect, "bye boat, through LEGAL means" END OF THREAD.

Do you really think they visited an American embassy and got papers blessing them as legal immigrants? They came here not knowing what to expect, and only hoping to be accepted. What did they have to lose? Ireland, at the time, was a shit hole. Death in America or death in Ireland. Death is death, so they rolled the dice. Lucky for them there was no real immigration laws in America back then and there was great need for common laborers. There's no difference in how my ancestors came here and how Mexicans are coming here. Both just have a hope and a prayer. The real difference is the law on the books. An important difference to a lawyer or politician, but inconsequential to someone desperately trying to give their family a better life.

Ask yourself, if things were reversed, would you care that Mexico had strict immigration laws forbidding illegal Americans? Nope. You would do whatever you had to to feed your family. Most immigrants, legal or not, are hard working people just trying to survive.

2. What did they do when they came here?

- I suspect "Found jobs and became self sufficient. Contributed to a better life here in America for their family and friends. TRIED to fit in, wanted to learn and contribute." END OF THREAD.

Probably lived in squalor and poverty while being treated as outcasts and criminals by American society. They probably only associated with their fellow Irish since they were the only thing familiar to them in a strange land. But they did work hard and over time, became American. Every poor (I mean economically) immigrant, no matter where they come from, has basically the same story.

[BigBear]

hmm... I can't seem to quote the quote....


In response:

"Do you really think they visited an American embassy and got papers blessing them as legal immigrants?"

No, but I believe they came wanting and probably asked around or sought out the information on how to stay here.

They came here not knowing what to expect, and only hoping to be accepted. What did they have to lose? Ireland, at the time, was a shit hole. Death in America or death in Ireland. Death is death, so they rolled the dice. Lucky for them there was no real immigration laws in America back then and there was great need for common laborers.

There is not that need any longer. Things change.

There's no difference in how my ancestors came here and how Mexicans are coming here.

I do beg to differ but I won't change your mind. Ancesters weren't really considered "ILLEGAL" since we didn't have the laws in place that we do now. Yes, they were ridiculed and thought to be mob scum, etc... but we've been over that.

Both just have a hope and a prayer.

Agreed.

The real difference is the law on the books. An important difference to a lawyer or politician, but inconsequential to someone desperately trying to give their family a better life.

And the coldness comes out in me. I want better for them. I truly want them to experience all they can in life and be in good health and make the money and etc... but there are laws that must be followed.

Ask yourself, if things were reversed, would you care that Mexico had strict immigration laws forbidding illegal Americans? Nope. You would do whatever you had to to feed your family.

I would not. Honestly. I would work my ass off as much as I could to try and strengthen my immediate surroundings, then the town, then the state, then the... I would NOT just up and move and hope it's better somewhere else or hope that someone else will take me in and provide everything.

Most immigrants, legal or not, are hard working people just trying to survive.

Again I'll beg to differ. I'll say some, but not most. I've lived in the Valley in TX and you'll never change my mind to differ.

2. What did they do when they came here?

- I suspect "Found jobs and became self sufficient. Contributed to a better life here in America for their family and friends. TRIED to fit in, wanted to learn and contribute." END OF THREAD.

Probably lived in squalor and poverty while being treated as outcasts and criminals by American society.

BUT they tried to make better situations for themselves, to PROVE to the American society that they were NOT parasites, not worthless sacks of bones with no respect to a strangers call.

The probably only associated with their fellow Irish since they were the only thing familiar to them in a strange land. But they did work hard and over time, became American. Every poor (I mean economically) immigrant (edit: Person), no matter where they come from, has basically the same story.

I agree... but I don't see the immigrants I know trying to work hard or become American. I see them using the system and ... grr....

I'm sorry Mutt. I said I'd quit. You're a great guy and I'm glad we live in American where we can have discussions like this. Take care. I'll try not to respond anymore.

[sniper7]

the answer is simple really. You just make the country so unattractive that nobody wants to live here anymore. Then they all go back home. The strategy is already in progress as we speak. I have faith in my politicians they will see it through!

sounds like you nailed this one on the head (as usual)!
as this place becomes more and more socialized like canada (who constantly come to the US for medical care--again source is the ER doctor in MT), the less people will want to come here.

if we all start giving away everything, and just tax those making over $150K a year at 50%, and everyone else at 30%, I think we may start to get the plan really in action

[mutt]

I agree... but I don't see the immigrants I know trying to work hard or become American. I see them using the system and ... grr....

I'm sorry Mutt. I said I'd quit. You're a great guy and I'm glad we live in American where we can have discussions like this. Take care. I'll try not to respond anymore.

Don't mean to give you heartburn Big Bear =)

We agree in principle. The law is the law and should be enforced. And that's not the job of anyone but the federal government to enforce it. I just want to point out that not every Mexican is lazy, not every Irishman is a drunk, nor is every Italian a mobster and not all Asians are good at math (I hate math). And for every Illegal sponging off the system, there's an American citizen doing the same. I don't like generalisations, especially negative ones, being made against entire groups of people. This is America, we're better than that.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Awww crap... a good topic, 5 pages long... I am left out!

BTW Mutt, although I agree with most of your last post....

"And for every Illegal sponging off the system, there's an American citizen doing the same."

American citizens have the right to sponge off their own country, while the 'illegals' do not. Hope I am not out of context since I don't feel like reading the whole thread.

Carry on...