9 Mm Vs 45 Acp

[Irving]

Why do people even practice two to the chest and one to the head? Are you planning on getting into a gun fight with a person tied to a post?

[Atrain1]

Why do people even practice two to the chest and one to the head? Are you planning on getting into a gun fight with a person tied to a post?

I would imagine it is to make sure there dead, but the problem is no one is going to get that shot placement in a gun fight.

[Irving]

Why don't people practice two to the body and one to the head for hunting?

[Atrain1]

You might want to include a disclaimer that you're not a lawyer when you give terrible advice.

That is why I said I would not think that is my opinion, based on alot of things I have seen, am I the only one that has seen some one squeeze off 8 rounds into some one from being scared and get off with SD. And I guess I am the only one that has seen cops and alot of other good people dead because they had a 9mm. So I guess no one here has heard of PCP and what it does

[mcantar18c]

Thanks mcantar18c for your reply.

When I said, "I think that for consistent defensive carry or law enforcement purposes, .45 cal or .40 cal might be a better choice than 9mm" I meant that my belief is that those rounds are probably more effective at incapacitating someone with fewer rounds fired than using a 9mm.

Go look up Velocity/Energy numbers between common 9mm and common .40S&W loads... there really isn't that big of a difference, in fact most numbers are within 100 points of each other. Now take a look at this image. Can you honestly tell me that you see any significant difference? As I said before, ALL handgun calibers suck, and they ALL suck pretty much equally. The most effective "man stoppers" are shot placement and rounds on target.
Also, why the worry about how well you can drop them with fewer rounds? Instead of looking at it as "how many rounds will it take to drop this asshat?" think of it as "lets see how many rounds can I put in this asshat before he hits the ground." I can't put it any more simply than this: SHOOT THEM TO THE GROUND.

For people who put themselves in situations where using a handgun, outside of the home, is possible i.e consistent defensive carry/law enforcement then actions will be very closely scrutinized. Stopping the target, not killing them is the objective. This is my belief, and like many, might not be correct.

If you wake up in the morning, you've put yourself in a position where having to kill or be killed (with a gun or otherwise) is possible. If you do have to defend yourself, it doesn't matter where it happens... in your home, on the streets, or in the parking lot of a police station... everything you do will be closely scrutinized. Again, see my sig line on this. While the legal "after the fight" crap should not be ignored, it should not be something that worries you so much that it has effects your course of action in a situation. In a fight, when its kill or be killed, you do WHATEVER it takes to survive. The only unfair fight is the one you don't win. Train well, train often, and train to not only win, but to win as quickly and decisively as possible. Take down your enemy as quickly, violently, and efficiently as you can... whether this means turning him into a cheese grater with your CCW piece or opening up his arteries and airways with a shattered dinner plate, you fight to WIN. If you hesitate on doing what needs to be done because your brain is stuck on "oh shit am I gonna get sued for this?" you won't have to worry about it because you won't live to see it. Worry about the fight when you're fighting it, and worry about the "after the fight" after the fight.

I guess I am also a bit paranoid, this comes form working in the medical field where lawsuits and threats of them are routine.

Understandable

And as I said before though, if someone threatens me and I feel my life is in jeopardy, I will fight to kill. For home defense I use a 12 gauge shotgun and have 9mm pistols available.
Just a little tangent I want to go on here... a 12ga is great for home defense, no question there. But does it fit your specific needs? For me, a 12ga with birdshot works just fine (although I use a handgun)... but my buddy's primary home defense is a Glock, as a long arm doesn't work for him. Why? He has a 3yo daughter, and may need to carry her into another room to keep her safe... and he can't operate 12ga with one hand (slow to aim and no way to work the pump). I had never even considered this until he and I had talked about it. Point is, make sure you're accounting for everything you possibly can when selecting your HD gun... because there's always something you don't think of.

When I was going through my tactical training I practiced 2 in the chest and one to the head. Now the problem for most people is once you are being shot at, your heart is racing and shot placement is going to be a big problem. So I say that for 2 reasons 1 I dont think any jury is going to put you behind bars for unloading a gun into a guy, that is threatining your life especialy if he has a gun, 2 a bigger caliber like a 45 will help if you are having problems with shot placement when your heart is racing, do to it being such a big slow moving bullet it will put the target down pretty much anywere you hit it. Now I think if you were to unload more than 1 mag into a guy, or shoot some one when they are running away is when you will have a problem.

Wow, I'm impressed. You're a very tactical guy with all that tactical training and whatnot, running Rhodesian Drills for fun because you know you're just so good that your shot placement will be completely unaffected in an actual situation.
I don't think anything needs to be said on this, it seems others are on the same page already.

[blacklabel]

am I the only one that has seen some one squeeze off 8 rounds into some one from being scared and get off with SD

And I've seen cases where a primary argument of the prosecution was excessive use of force because shots were fired after the perceived threat was "stopped".

And I guess I am the only one that has seen cops and alot of other good people dead because they had a 9mm.

Same can be said of .45.

So I guess no one here has heard of PCP and what it does

It was developed as an anesthetic so that'll give you an idea of it's affects. Seems to me that a hit to the CNS would be the best bet in a situation like that. Again, shot placement is king with bullet size being secondary. That said, if I'm in that situation, I'm not going to be able to consciously think to shoot to hit the CNS. I'll be shooting COM until the threat stops.

I'm a strong believer in the best round being the one that you can get positive hits with and have with you when needed.

[mcantar18c]

Why do people even practice two to the chest and one to the head? Are you planning on getting into a gun fight with a person tied to a post?

In a proactive fight, a RD can be pulled off and can be effective. But we're talking reactive fights here... I can't think of any situation where a civilian can engage in a proactive fight without becoming the criminal.

So I guess no one here has heard of PCP and what it does

PCP = more holes in body. End of discussion.

[Atrain1]

Wow, I'm impressed. You're a very tactical guy with all that tactical training and whatnot, running Rhodesian Drills for fun because you know you're just so good that your shot placement will be completely unaffected in an actual situation.
I don't think anything needs to be said on this, it seems others are on the same page already.

When I said most people I guess what I ment to say was most people, I would imagine I am among most people, so again I forgot I am in co and you have to talk to people like they are kids. Sorry I didnt say that people like Navy Seals and Army SF people like that will put there bullet were ever they want, Now most people ME included with the little training I have, and as good as a shot that I think I am, and every one else that has seen me, all my friends I shoot with. You and most people you know will not get the shot placement they think they are going to get in a tactical situation. I have been shot at so I know what it feels like.

[Mick-Boy]

When I said most people I guess what I ment to say was most people, I would imagine I am among most people, so again I forgot I am in co and you have to talk to people like they are kids. Sorry I didnt say that people like Navy Seals and Army SF people like that will put there bullet were ever they want, Now most people ME included with the little training I have, and as good as a shot that I think I am, and every one else that has seen me, all my friends I shoot with. You and most people you know will not get the shot placement they think they are going to get in a tactical situation. I have been shot at so I know what it feels like.

Dude....

There's so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. Just to be helpful though I'll suggest you look up the MOS designator that the person you're arguing with has at the end of his screenname. (It makes your comment that much funnier.)

MCantar - I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Atrain1]

And I've seen cases where a primary argument of the prosecution was excessive use of force because shots were fired after the perceived threat was "stopped".



Same can be said of .45.



It was developed as an anesthetic so that'll give you an idea of it's affects. Seems to me that a hit to the CNS would be the best bet in a situation like that. Again, shot placement is king with bullet size being secondary. That said, if I'm in that situation, I'm not going to be able to consciously think to shoot to hit the CNS. I'll be shooting COM until the threat stops.

I'm a strong believer in the best round being the one that you can get positive hits with and have with you when needed.

That is what my point was I dont see why no one understands, that if you got a guy charging at you or whatever the siuation might be, I dont think you will be very good with your shot placement, and that a 45 will tend to drop a human more than a 9mm will. I seen a clip were a cop should still be alive cause he had a 9mm. I did not mean to upset anyone.