Carrying on an Indian Reservation

[lebru]

My company won a bid to do IT infrastructure work on the Ute Mountain reservation. Going to be spending 6-8 weeks down there this summer, and wondering what the legitimacy is of me carrying there.


Granted:
They are their own governing entity, and are still under federal protection. A lot of state laws do not apply there as well. I have talked to an anthropologist whose done a lot of work there but he had no idea what to tell me and basically what i've been told is that any crime committed there by non-indians would be considered a federal offense(from several different sources including tribal police). He's even told me about a murder he witnessed, but they couldn't prosecute because the federal government decided it would be too expensive.


So, since it is under federal protection, I would assume that means I can't carry there. Just as any federally owned building or property (Ft. Logan Cemetary, Structures in the National Parks). I know there is a huge grey area dealing with reservation policy...just don't want to get in trouble while i'm down there and they have a huge gang problem.

[Byte Stryke]

My company won a bid to do IT infrastructure work on the Ute Mountain reservation. Going to be spending 6-8 weeks down there this summer, and wondering what the legitimacy is of me carrying there.


Granted:
They are their own governing entity, and are still under federal protection. A lot of state laws do not apply there as well. I have talked to an anthropologist whose done a lot of work there but he had no idea what to tell me and basically what i've been told is that any crime committed there by non-indians would be considered a federal offense(from several different sources including tribal police). He's even told me about a murder he witnessed, but they couldn't prosecute because the federal government decided it would be too expensive.


So, since it is under federal protection, I would assume that means I can't carry there. Just as any federally owned building or property (Ft. Logan Cemetary, Structures in the National Parks). I know there is a huge grey area dealing with reservation policy...just don't want to get in trouble while i'm down there and they have a huge gang problem.

HUGE Difference between federal Protection and Federal Governance and Federal owned.
Speak with the Tribal Police regarding permission, it may have to go to council depending on Tribal law.
Depending on how you approach it, you may get a pass.

[lebru]

HUGE Difference between federal Protection and Federal Governance and Federal owned.
Speak with the Tribal Police regarding permission, it may have to go to council depending on Tribal law.
Depending on how you approach it, you may get a pass.

Thats what I was wondering though, is if those same laws still applied. Because Federal laws are still valid there, but certain state ones aren't. I was kinda hoping to avoid the tribal police because I didn't want them to put me on some sort of list of people to look out for or something....

[Great-Kazoo]

there are only 2 LE agencies allowed on Reservation Land.
1) Tribal Police
2) Federal Agents

No one else has authority or jurisdiction to be on there acting in any LE capacity.
Regarding CCW. If you have a valid Permit and are on Res land i suggest you keep your mouth shut. The only thing you will be doing by "asking" around is draw attention to yourself. That attention will have your vehicle broken in and maybe you getting roughed up by some one wanting your gun. The res is a sovereign nation beholden to its own laws. As one who spends time on the res, those who uphold the laws (not all the time) have only one goal, keep the DUI, DWAI death toll down, small gang squabbles off the radar and minimize any non-native from becoming a statistic.
Do what you feel comfortable doing, just remember a white caller to teh res police will put you in line behind the crowdogs, kids breaking windows in the housing project.
YMMV, my life is my responsibility. Believe me some of the younguns want to push buttons and who's going to come to your aid???

[lebru]

there are only 2 LE agencies allowed on Reservation Land.
1) Tribal Police
2) Federal Agents

No one else has authority or jurisdiction to be on there acting in any LE capacity.
Regarding CCW. If you have a valid Permit and are on Res land i suggest you keep your mouth shut. The only thing you will be doing by "asking" around is draw attention to yourself. That attention will have your vehicle broken in and maybe you getting roughed up by some one wanting your gun. The res is a sovereign nation beholden to its own laws. As one who spends time on the res, those who uphold the laws (not all the time) have only one goal, keep the DUI, DWAI death toll down, small gang squabbles off the radar and minimize any non-native from becoming a statistic.
Do what you feel comfortable doing, just remember a white caller to teh res police will put you in line behind the crowdogs, kids breaking windows in the housing project.
YMMV, my life is my responsibility. Believe me some of the younguns want to push buttons and who's going to come to your aid???

I won't be living on the reservation, staying at a hotel in cortez for the 6 weeks. Will only be spending the days there.

[SA Friday]

Jurisdiction on any reservation is a tricky thing. Not all reservations are Federal and/or tribal. During the Hoover commission of 1949, Public law 280 and H.R. 108 resulted in 109 tribes being "disbanded", and gave the following states jurisdiction over crimes that occur on reservations; AK, CA, NE, WY,MN, and OR. It also gave the rest of the states the choice of taking jurisdiction over a crime on a reservation if they want to claim it.

It changed everything, and re-established a policy of assimilation in e Federal Govts dealings with Indians. So, between the Hoover Commission changes, the subsequent changes in the 70s and all the garbage that preceeded the Hoover Commission, it's a crap shoot as to what laws are in place for the Ute reservation. Talk to the local law enforcement agencies on the reservation to figure it out. They are going to be the only ones who truly have a grasp on what is in place there.

[lebru]

Jurisdiction on any reservation is a tricky thing. Not all reservations are Federal and/or tribal. During the Hoover commission of 1949, Public law 280 and H.R. 108 resulted in 109 tribes being "disbanded", and gave the following states jurisdiction over crimes that occur on reservations; AK, CA, NE, WY,MN, and OR. It also gave the rest of the states the choice of taking jurisdiction over a crime on a reservation if they want to claim it.

It changed everything, and re-established a policy of assimilation in e Federal Govts dealings with Indians. So, between the Hoover Commission changes, the subsequent changes in the 70s and all the garbage that preceeded the Hoover Commission, it's a crap shoot as to what laws are in place for the Ute reservation. Talk to the local law enforcement agencies on the reservation to figure it out. They are going to be the only ones who truly have a grasp on what is in place there.

Ute Mtn is under federal protection. We had a representative come and give us a speech about what to expect while were down there the other week. Also chatted with an Anthropologist who has done a hell of a lot of work down there. I know there is that mentality of "if you carry correctly no one will know anyway" but I am not that type of guy. I also don't want to be on any sort of list of people they need to watch out for while i'm down there.

edit: HCR 108 terminated reservations that were able to sustain themselves. Ute Mtn wasn't one of those....the Pequots were.

[KevDen2005]

Jurisdiction on any reservation is a tricky thing. Not all reservations are Federal and/or tribal. During the Hoover commission of 1949, Public law 280 and H.R. 108 resulted in 109 tribes being "disbanded", and gave the following states jurisdiction over crimes that occur on reservations; AK, CA, NE, WY,MN, and OR. It also gave the rest of the states the choice of taking jurisdiction over a crime on a reservation if they want to claim it.

It changed everything, and re-established a policy of assimilation in e Federal Govts dealings with Indians. So, between the Hoover Commission changes, the subsequent changes in the 70s and all the garbage that preceeded the Hoover Commission, it's a crap shoot as to what laws are in place for the Ute reservation. Talk to the local law enforcement agencies on the reservation to figure it out. They are going to be the only ones who truly have a grasp on what is in place there.

I was about to actually mention this. There is also a list, that can be figured out fairly easily of how crime applies to you on a reservation, not being a resident, and not being a tribal member. A lot things change depending on who you are and why you are there.

I would also not say anything, personally.

[SA Friday]

I was about to actually mention this. There is also a list, that can be figured out fairly easily of how crime applies to you on a reservation, not being a resident, and not being a tribal member. A lot things change depending on who you are and why you are there.

I would also not say anything, personally.

Ya, the list doesn't help either. I've seen it. It's clear as mud, not to mention just how one defines a Native American... It leads to Blood Quantums and more bad policies.

BTW, talked to a very knowledgable person about the LE on the Ute Res. today. It's a mess from a law enforcement and jurisdictional stand point. All bets are off. There are only about four cops for the Res, and the locals occasionally get involved in enforcement, but for the most part the local LE doesn't have the manpower or inclination to "get involved" in Res crimes. Jurisdictionally, by the time you figured it all out, the court costs alone would drive you into destitution. Not worth it IMO unless you get one of the Res cops to sign off on it.

[The Norseman]

Just completed a CCW course here in Durango. We were told that CC on the Southern Ute reservation is not allowed. I would guess maybe same holds true for Ute Mountain Ute rez.