Thanks for the clarification. I hadn't even noticed the location.
ops:
Mike
Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums
Welcome to the Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums.
Welcome to the Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums.
Thanks for the clarification. I hadn't even noticed the location.
Mike
No problem, Brother
http://www.tridentconcepts.com/index.asp?page=apply
"IMPORTANT NOTE:
Due to recent events, we will be requiring more stringent student credentials to participate in any Trident Concepts training courses. Failure to complete the application will result in non-enrollment. It is the responsibility of the enrollee to ensure we have all the appropriate material to verify the credentials. Failure to do so could result in denied enrollment or delayed enrollment. Please review the student credentials below and choose the appropriate selection(s). "
"Section Two: Student Credentials
Valid State Concealed Weapon Permit
Active Duty Military/Reserves
Active Law Enforcement Officer
Character reference"
"Character reference
Provide two letters of "character" from prominent figures of your community who have know you personally for a minimum of two years. Mail both copies together along with your course date and contact information to the address listed above."
Looks to me like all of the classes are geared to prevent civilians from participating
If the ONLY reason to deny access to "civilians" was because of the location, then why allow CCW holders. BS!!! :evil: I still wouldn't go there. Karl.
So,let's get this straight
This guy is offering a class on a range built with my (our) tax money. (which we would be arrested if we didn't pay)
to people who are paid by our tax money
who are probably not even paying it out of their salary but directly billing the department (more of our tax money)
and we're a risk?
F 'em
I won't ever go to this guy.
Police officers are civilians.
Brian H
Longmont CO
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
Originally Posted by JohnTRourke
For the most part you are way off base. I almost went to one of Jeff's Gonzales classes last year (had to cancel due to a back injury).
I had to pay $550 for the class out of my own pocket, pay for lodging and travel out of my own pocket, and my Department wasn't even going to give pay me for the 3 days I was in class (I was going to have to take vacation).
Money is very tight at the city, county, and state level for the most part. And I work for a medium sized Dept (200+ sworn officer). Guys are not getting the training they need, and many of us seek out training on our own.
Yes police officers are civilians. There is certain training and infomation that is law enforcement sensetive. The bad guys are always trying to get the upper hand.
As a civilian you can walk away from danger or a bad situation. As law enforcement officer we are sent into harms way and expected to handle the situation.
Take this into consideration.....When was the last time you were exposed to T.B., Hepatitus, HIV, or AIDS? When was the last time someone tried to shoot or stab you for doing your job? When was the last time you were assaulted during the performance of your duties at work? When was the last time you were sued or had a criminal civil right violation case brough against you for doing you job (even if you were in the right and the person committing crimes is lying)? When was the last time someone intentionally tried to hit you with a car? etc, etc, etc.
These are but a few things that cops face on a daily basis.
So why don't you take your tax money and give me a raise and purchase some equipment (ie. all my uniforms, pistol, duty belt and everything that goes on it, all my SWAT gear to include an AR, optics, and accessories, my SWAT uniforms, body armor, boot, gloves, helmet, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc......because the only thing that YOUR Tax Dollars have paid for that I have been issued is a badge, radio, and a car). And with your tax dollars please purchase a new building for our Dept (the one I work in is over 50 years old and is falling apart and is filled with asbestos, parts of it have been condemed in the past, the roof leaks, last month part of the roof fell in almost hitting a detective walking down the hall), and get me a computer system that makes work easier not harder.
When was the last time you were exposed to T.B., Hepatitus, HIV, or AIDS? DAILY probably.
When was the last time someone tried to shoot or stab you for doing your job? Not that often, but just once is enough.
When was the last time you were assaulted during the performance of your duties at work? At least a few times a month.
When was the last time you were sued or had a criminal civil right violation case brough against you for doing you job (even if you were in the right and the person committing crimes is lying)? Successfully? Never.
When was the last time someone intentionally tried to hit you with a car? Been two weeks now, he stopped cuz he didn't like me pulling my gun out.
But hey, you're probably right, us lowly civilians don't need to know all that super secret LEO ONLY stuff to defend ourselves. I mean hey, what right do we have expecting to be able to defend ourselves on the same level as you "special citizens". :evil:
Karl.
Okay here's the deal. As an instructor I know what I'm about to say is true. You may not like it, but it is true.
This class is being hosted by an LE agency on an LE range. They don't let non-LE people shoot on their range. This is a normal policy for LE agencies. Why? Can you say liability?
The instructor is teaching a class aimed at an LE audience. The safety rules will be "looser" because of the LE audience, and most instructors don't want to take the risk of letting non-LE in the class just in case someone gets hurt. Only allowing current LE in the class ensures at least a minimum baseline of safety and common sense in the class. (Or, it should.)
This isn't about us VS them, its about liability.
So when it says LE only, it has nothing to do with thinking that non-LE types are lesser beings, just that they tend to incur more liability.
Current LE students do have some different rules to play by. The instructor can't assume everyone is the same. If he teaches a specific thing, aimed at an LE only audience, and a non-LE student goes out and does it, the instructor is liable, not the agency. Few active LE instructors will teach civilians for exactly this reason.
The school posted a class here. We like it when they do that. The class was aimed at LE only. We have LE guys that hang out here. There have been other LE only classes posted here without any objection, or griping. So why this one?
Most of the schools that post here also offer non-LE classes. The only reason you don't see them offered is that nobody is willing to host them. Most non-LE ranges will not allow training classes. It ties up the range so members can't shoot, and guess what, they don't want the liability.
I have tried to get several LE type classes for non-LE students. All the instructors were willing. But I have yet to be able to find a shooting facility that will host one. Guess why?
Jeff, usmc03 is one of the few that has been able to get quality classes to Colorado. They are all in Pueblo because its virtually the only range that will host such a thing.
So don't bitch at the instructor or the school for making it this way. Bitch at the ranges who won't let them teach classes with any real content.
So if you have a problem with this, ask the school to do a class for the rest of us. If they can find a range I'm sure they will. And you'll pay the same price as the LE guys, who I'm sure paid out of their own pocket.
I like all you guys. And your opinios are valid. But for the first time since I can remember when I'm locking a thread before it runs down the drain and becomes an arfcom thing........
.
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