AZ immigration laws

[Ranger]

Ah, well, crap, now I have something to say .

So you say you don't think racial profiling is fair and just? Perhaps it not, maybe its not the American way, but it's the Israeli way and has been working pretty good for a while. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well it must be a duck. If it looks muslim and acts muslim then it must be muslim.

WHOA now, that of course (of frickin' course) makes me a racist! You don't want to "card" those of brown skin? That's just not fair. Life isn't fair. I'm all up for being carded every time a cop pulls me over if it means there are less illegals here. Let's face it, the Canadians aren't hurting anyone (you know, that bad-ass Canadian Mafia is SCAAAAAAARY).

Do I have an answer? Sure, but the answers I have serve my own purposes and no matter what that answer is it's going to piss someone off. Like I really care! Close the border, put our boys on it and shoot every bastard that tries to cross illegally, that will discourage many others. If we offend some folks in the meantime, so be it.

I just had to vent, if I hurt your feelings then let me quote another post in this thread and say "WELL BOO FRICKIN HOO HOO!". I'm so sick of the bleeding hearts who think they have all the answers and I'm sick of our government doing little or nothing to enforce the immigration laws we have, so if Arizona and Texas want to enforce their own borders then more power to them. They have a contract with the feds and it's currently not being honored.

Rant over, hate all you want!

[ChunkyMonkey]

In regards to e-verify, since there is a mean to check, it is businesses' responsibility to use it imho. If the majority of businesses refuse to use it, we already lost this battle. I am so against having more laws as the current ones are not even being enforced. I think the key is awareness. Most businesses don't even know what e-verify is.

I don't see how requiring more paperwork for the businesses will change anything. Afterall, most businesses who hire illegals know exactly what they are doing.

[mutt]

That was tongue and cheek my friend... Try not to take it personally.

My apologies Ranger.

[ruthabagah]

@Ruthabagah,
The idea behind the ID check is because non permanent resident immigrants can obtain ID upto the expiration date on the visa. Driver license offices in CO stop issuing 10 year ID/DL if you are a visitor or temporary visa holder. They match the expiration to the visa. LE or even ICE officers use ID/DL as the first indication of status. The mind boggling part is the conservatives do not want National ID system, while we want border security. The liberals want stronger National ID system while trying to protect illegal immigrants at the same time. Anyone else sees the contradiction?

Me. I am just wondering if a dl will be enough. Back in Jan 2004 I was with a group of clients/co-workers on a late night, bar hopping trip,  in San Antonio, TX. After all the bar had closed on the river/canal, we ended up in a small joint where aside from us, most patron were Latinos.  Around 2 am the local PD made a descent on the bar, along with a young ICE agent. They started checking the DL of everybody in the room starting with the “darkest’ color skin… when it was my turn they asked me, in Spanish, for my ID. I replied that I did not speak Spanish, and provided my DL. The ICE agent then stepped in front of the local PD, and repeated again in Spanish that he needed some form of ID from me….. (Note: I look as Latino as Tom Cruise does…. I am not saying that I look like Tom… let say that physically I am between Tom Cruise and Danny DeVito!) Anyway: After pulling my SS card, and one of my GVT work credential I finally got the guys off my case…. Then it was my friend’s Anthony’s turn. You see, Tony looks like a young version of the actor Ricardo Montalban. (so much so that his nick name is Khan….)  he his half Scott half Italian…The local PD as well as the ICE agent repeated the same “game” and asked him to provide his ID (in Spanish first), which he did, then more ID which unfortunately he did not have….After spending 2 hour in the company of the ICE in their office, Tony was released around 6 am, along with Carole, one of my French-Canadian co-worker, who was also travelling light and left her passport in the hotel, with no apology.
 
Maybe this was a one off experience, but I hope this is not the kind of society we are going to, where anybody,  anytime could be in a situation where they would have to prove their citizenship with whatever they have in their pocket.
 

[mutt]

Ah, well, crap, now I have something to say .

So you say you don't think racial profiling is fair and just? Perhaps it not, maybe its not the American way, but it's the Israeli way and has been working pretty good for a while. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well it must be a duck. If it looks muslim and acts muslim then it must be muslim.

I have a lot of respect for how Israel handles certain things, but their country is essentially a theocracy where only jews have rights and non-jews are 'tolerated' second-class citizens. All men are definitely not created equal there and it's codified law. Are you really suggesting we should emulate Israel? OR am I missing the tongue in cheek again?

WHOA now, that of course (of frickin' course) makes me a racist! You don't want to "card" those of brown skin? That's just not fair. Life isn't fair. I'm all up for being carded every time a cop pulls me over if it means there are less illegals here. Let's face it, the Canadians aren't hurting anyone (you know, that bad-ass Canadian Mafia is SCAAAAAAARY).

So to maybe solve a problem you're willing to give up equal protection and treatment under the law? That's a slippery slope. Pretty sure good old Ben had something to say about giving up liberty for safety.

Do I have an answer? Sure, but the answers I have serve my own purposes and no matter what that answer is it's going to piss someone off. Like I really care! Close the border, put our boys on it and shoot every bastard that tries to cross illegally, that will discourage many others. If we offend some folks in the meantime, so be it.

That's an option and within the rights of the federal govt to do so. But TX or AZ aren't allowed to do so. That's the crux of this whole debate. Who has the power and authority to solve this and why aren't they doing it?

I just had to vent, if I hurt your feelings then let me quote another post in this thread and say "WELL BOO FRICKIN HOO HOO!". I'm so sick of the bleeding hearts who think they have all the answers and I'm sick of our government doing little or nothing to enforce the immigration laws we have, so if Arizona and Texas want to enforce their own borders then more power to them. They have a contract with the feds and it's currently not being honored.

Rant over, hate all you want!

Venting is good.

[Ranger]

That's an option and within the rights of the federal govt to do so. But TX or AZ aren't allowed to do so. That's the crux of this whole debate. Who has the power and authority to solve this and why aren't they doing it?

Whether Texas or Arizona have the right to do that is indeed under debate, so to say they aren't allowed is implying which side of this debate you are on. I personally believe they not only have the right but an obligation to the citizens to do so and that if the federal government doesn't do what they are obligated to do (keep in mind that we ALL pay taxes for the government TO DO this, it is not suppose to be at their discretion to do so) then the states need to take whatever actions they feel best for themselves.

[weirjf]

Whether Texas or Arizona have the right to do that is indeed under debate, so to say they aren't allowed is implying which side of this debate you are on. I personally believe they not only have the right but an obligation to the citizens to do so and that if the federal government doesn't do what they are obligated to do (keep in mind that we ALL pay taxes for the government TO DO this, it is not suppose to be at their discretion to do so) then the states need to take whatever actions they feel best for themselves.

Come on... how can we possibly expect to choose the safety of American citizens over turtle tunnels and monkey habitats. Get your priorities straight! Think about the poor turtles!

[mutt]

Whether Texas or Arizona have the right to do that is indeed under debate, so to say they aren't allowed is implying which side of this debate you are on. I personally believe they not only have the right but an obligation to the citizens to do so and that if the federal government doesn't do what they are obligated to do (keep in mind that we ALL pay taxes for the government TO DO this, it is not suppose to be at their discretion to do so) then the states need to take whatever actions they feel best for themselves.

Since shooting Mexicans or Canadians trying to enter our borders is basically an act of war against a foreign state, the Constitution pretty much lays out who can do what:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress
...
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
...

State governors or legislatures are not given this power. On the contrary:

Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States
...
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
...

A bunch of unarmed fence hoppers do not equal an imminent Danger or invasion force. Now if The People would like that changed so States can engage in acts of war with foreign states, we have a process for amending our Constitution. Good luck.

[Byte Stryke]

I just had to vent, if I hurt your feelings then let me quote another post in this thread and say "WELL BOO FRICKIN HOO HOO!". I'm so sick of the bleeding hearts who think they have all the answers and I'm sick of our government doing little or nothing to enforce the immigration laws we have, so if Arizona and Texas want to enforce their own borders then more power to them. They have a contract with the feds and it's currently not being honored.

Rant over, hate all you want!

Completely agree.

I FEEL (This implies a personal perspective not necessarily based in fact) that when the Federal government delays or falters in its duties to protect the common good and citizens of the union then it does fall to the States to enforce the federal laws. Unless you really think the Colorado National guard is just for show.. because let's face it, Wyoming isn't going to invade.


Just my 2 cents

[Drilldov2.0]

Since shooting Mexicans or Canadians trying to enter our borders is basically an act of war against a foreign state, the Constitution pretty much lays out who can do what:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress
...
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
...

State governors or legislatures are not given this power. On the contrary:

Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States
...
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
...

A bunch of unarmed fence hoppers do not equal an imminent Danger or invasion force. Now if The People would like that changed so States can engage in acts of war with foreign states, we have a process for amending our Constitution. Good luck.

With 11 million illegals coming into the U.S.A. you think it is not an invasion? as far as unarmed, you need to do some research.

Mind you, they are called "illegal" for a reason.

The big picture, try to find it.