Robbery

[Dusty Johnson]

I searched the forum before posting this and could not find any information answering my questions so if this has been discussed I apologize.

I was reading the Colorado statutes regarding deadly physical force and wanted others thoughts and opinions regarding these questions.

Am I reading the statutes right when I say if I am in a bank, store, or gas station and someone walks in with a gun points it at the store employee and says "give me all your money right now" I am justified in shooting and killing the person committing the robbery even if the gun is not pointed at me?

Let's also say I am walking down the street and see someone pointing a gun at another person trying to rob them, am I justified in using deadly force to help that person even though the gun is not pointed at me if I choose?

Last time I asked "what if" type of questions I was told that If I went though any decent CCW class these questions should have already been answered. These questions were in fact answered in my CCW class but I am looking for more information, thoughts and clarification.




"18-1-704 Use Of Physical Force In Defense Of A Person
1. Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force
upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other
person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose. 2. Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:
(a.) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury; or (b.) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an
occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204; or (c.) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined
in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302, robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302, sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 or 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as
defined in sections 18-3-202 or 18-3-203."

[KevDen2005]

"18-1-704 Use Of Physical Force In Defense Of A Person
1. Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force
upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other
person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose. 2. Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:
(a.) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury; or (b.) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an
occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204; or (c.) The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined
in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302, robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302, sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 or 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as
defined in sections 18-3-202 or 18-3-203."

I thought I would get fancy this time, I always get impressed when everyone else highlights and uses italics in certain areas and responses...

A gun is a deadly weapon, if someone points it at you and you are afraid for your life you can justifiably say that I thought I was going to be killed and therefore shot that person. I would also say the highlighted portion answers that question about the bank teller...

Get an attorney...Even if I am in a justifiable shooting, I am still getting one

[KevDen2005]

Also this is the only law or one of the only laws that is written with "Great Bodily Injury" rather than just "bodily injury" or "Serious Bodily Injury." The courts have ruled that "Great Bodily Injury" was meant to be "Serious Bodily Injury" or SBI. You can look up the definitions of both in the same place you got 18-1-704...if not let me know

[gnihcraes]

For me personally, I only want to get involved if more violent. Shots were fired, or physical harm has been witnessed. (punch, kick, hit with gun) Otherwise, everyone comply and let them go on their way.

I've witnessed a few assaults against others, and have been a good witness, but it has been a real pain in the rear with the courts and my time. To up the ante by displaying and using a weapon when nothing more has been done than "scare" tactics by the aggressor.

Similar scenario was given in our CCW class, and if the aggressor pointed the gun at a child in this "What If", then things have changed a little for me to do something.

[KevDen2005]

For me personally, I only want to get involved if more violent. Shots were fired, or physical harm has been witnessed. (punch, kick, hit with gun) Otherwise, everyone comply and let them go on their way.

I've witnessed a few assaults against others, and have been a good witness, but it has been a real pain in the rear with the courts and my time. To up the ante by displaying and using a weapon when nothing more has been done than "scare" tactics by the aggressor.

Similar scenario was given in our CCW class, and if the aggressor pointed the gun at a child in this "What If", then things have changed a little for me to do something.

I personally think this is EXCELLENT. Having an outline of what you plan on doing if you are in certain situations will help you be better prepared. For me, before I was a cop and had my CCW, I had something very similar. Not that I am a lawyer, but deal with legal matters on a daily basis now, I have upped my response if I see something to "big" in my eyes. When off duty cops get involved in "little things" i just want to punch them...be a good witness, why are you getting involved in ridiculousness?

[Ridge]

I agree. Unless the situation escalates to use of force by the thug, I'm not going to draw. If it does happen, I'm shooting to stop the threat, not to kill them.

[DeusExMachina]

I agree. Unless the situation escalates to use of force by the thug, I'm not going to draw. If it does happen, I'm shooting to stop the threat, not to kill them.

Shooting to stop the threat IS shooting to kill. NEVER shoot to wound. This is like rule #-1.

A wounded individual is still a threat. The only reliable way to stop a threat is to shoot vital areas. Also, claiming you were shooting to wound says to a jury that you did not see them as a serious threat.

[Ridge]

But saying you are shooting to kill will get you ripped to shreds by a liberal DA.

You shoot to wound, and if they continue to pose a threat, you continue to shoot.

[DeusExMachina]

But saying you are shooting to kill will get you ripped to shreds by a liberal DA.

You shoot to wound, and if they continue to pose a threat, you continue to shoot.

Your life was in danger, thus you shot to stop the threat.

Shooting to wound is saying you were aiming for legs/arms/whatever, which shows a severe disregard for the threat you were facing as well as others around you.

[FireMoth]

And, again, he said "SHOOT TO STOP THE THREAT" not to kill. Killing is just a consequence of that intent. And i am not a coroner, so i cant make the call if some one is dead anyway.

More importantly, if you are in mortal peril, and you really needed to pull your weapon and shoot, who gives a fuck about a DA? You LIVED. Everything else is manageable.

If you have the time or the inclination to worry about how a jury will react, then you probably didn't need to get to gun play.