Gas Prices

[FireMoth]

Every time this subject comes up, i remember bouncing at a bar, hearing people whining about the crippling gas prices, as they swilled Shit whiskey at $4.00 an ounce...

[sniper7]

I hope not. Bailing out the banks and auto industry has a short term cost, most of that money will be/has been recouped. The bigger problem was the bailout was that these companies were deemed "too big too fail" and as a consequence of the bailouts and the many failures/acquisitions of smaller institutions they are now ever larger. We should probably require them to break apart into smaller institutions, and one of which could be allowed to fail. That's seen as government intervention and is frowned upon.

Obama's big bet, the recovery acts, totaled approx $1T, but half of that was in tax breaks -- which the GOP would have done in the same situation. In the end the recovery legislation probably did shorten the recession, but of course that will be debated ad nauseum. I think the GOP would have done similar things because politicians can't be seen as doing nothing if they want to be re-elected.

I don't know what gratification came from a black president, I don't believe Obama was elected because he is half black, I think the only telling factor is that he wasn't defeated because he's black, as would certainly have been the case less than 50 years ago. The real question, to my mind, is how long before we could elect an avowed Atheist president? I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I think that what our kids think in 50 years is really going to depend on how we continue behaving. If we keep waging trillion dollar wars, if we keep our tax rates low while debt skyrockets, if we continue to kick infrastructure down the road these things will come back to bite us in the ass.

The real problem is that Americans, and thus American leaders, haven't had to cohones to raise taxes and reduce spending to actually acheve a balanced budget, let along the surplus we must have to pay down the deficit. It's as if we've been left with the tab for the past thirty years of American Exceptionalism, and now we're faced with the question of: Do we pay it, or do we keep adding on to it for the future to deal with?

H.

so the .gov having a hand in and ownership of privately owned companies is short term? aren't most .gov interventions supposed to be short term?

what about all the pork that was attached to those stimulus and bailout packages? we are still in a recession. 9.8% unemployment last I heard/checked. apparently it really hasn't worked as well as they hoped. now we just have to wait for the super-inflation to hit and sink back in again. I am already seeing some of the effects across the country such as higher gas prices, higher food costs, fees being added on to shipping, flights, transportation etc. yet all the while, jobs aren't being created or are barely being increased. I think 190,000 increase was the latest increase in the private sector. raises are on hold, especially for federal and state employees, but also for a lot of the private sector according to people I have talked with while traveling.

so you are telling me that 98% of the black population that voted, who voted for obama has nothing to do with obama being black?...please. the liberals, ACORN, democrats all bussed people in from low income areas to vote. the obama T-shirts were rampant down here in the southern US. why would we want an atheist president? Last time I looked we are one nation UNDER GOD. there isn't anything from the entire history of this country that says otherwise. our money, our founding documents, our country's songs etc etc. there is no way in hell that an atheist should ever be president.

the wars are not the problem. the money spent mostly comes back to the US. pay to the soldiers, building of fighters, tanks, vehicles almost all made is the US. ammo, weapons, clothing again all made in the US for the most part. that money is being circulated back into the US.

The problem is giving other countries aid, giving them help and getting nothing in return. we should have 20 cent a gallon gas after doing what we did for Iraq, and what is happening in Afghanistan.

you go ahead and pay more taxes. I will keep my hard earned money and spend it as I chose. not hand it away to illegals, to people sucking the tit of the system, extorting it by having children, faking problems, getting free housing, reduced heat etc etc.

Katrina is the greatest example. 4-5 years after Katrina I saw massive amounts of homes with blue tarps on the roofs yet newer vehicles with big spinner rims parked out front. they received money from FEMA to help cover the cost of a new roof, yet somehow a blue tarp seemed to be just fine and the new set of rims was a priority.

social security is on my list as well. there is no way I need to pay that much money into a system that allows illegals to come in who haven't paid a dime into the system to receive those benefits. the system was not designed for it, and I don't want it. I want to cut my losses and get rid of the whole damn system. I don't want to be forced to pay into it.

welfare, medicaid, medicare all need to be cut completely and rebuilt from the ground up. I am all for helping those people who are down and out, who have lost their job, but I don't want to see it become a way of life. It has got to that point, and there is no denying from either side.

raising taxes right now will do nothing more than continue the recession further or dig us deeper into the recession. even the dems recognized this enough to bite their lip and kept taxes down. people are struggling to hang on as it is. gas prices hit $4 and we are going to see another dip in the wrong direction. the .gov needs to cut spending. they can start with the TSA. I see twice as many TSA agents than are operationally necessary at almost every airport I go to in the US.

I'm too tired to keep writing, half falling asleep now or I would continue. maybe tomorrow.

[ChunkyMonkey]

The real problem is that Americans, and thus American leaders, haven't had to cohones to raise taxes and reduce spending to actually acheve a balanced budget, let along the surplus we must have to pay down the deficit. It's as if we've been left with the tab for the past thirty years of American Exceptionalism, and now we're faced with the question of: Do we pay it, or do we keep adding on to it for the future to deal with?

H.

-1

US Fed tax and misc income is roughly 15% of GDP. Add in your State, County, City budgets, the combination is at 35% of GDP. 35% of GDP and the gov is still running thirteen digit deficit!! Meanwhile the highest bracket of income tax rate is already at 35% + Fed sales tax in addition to State sales and assessment tax+ County fees and property taxes and finally City fees and taxes.

The past 40 years, we know for the fact that raising federal taxes equal to bigger bloated govt. It's time to realize that deficit spending is a bad habit not a simple bad math aka raise tax+lower budget = solution. Cut back entitlement, protect US citizen rights, give power back to the State, and simplify our tax code are the highest impact action US can do.

And Obama's race has nothing to do with Obamacare, bailouts, and 2 trillion deficit in two years, does it?

[lebru]

s
the wars are not the problem. the money spent mostly comes back to the US. pay to the soldiers, building of fighters, tanks, vehicles almost all made is the US. ammo, weapons, clothing again all made in the US for the most part. that money is being circulated back into the US.

Right the majority of the 12.3 billion per month spent comes back to the US......if that were true there would be no budget crisis. Do you realize, the majority of what we spend is on logistics and fuel, and not logistics through our army. Only 10% of the food supplies come from the US, the rest are from foreign countries and local sources that we have to pay out too. Do you realize how much ammo and fuel gets wasted just in the transport of troops to and from the middle east? That money goes no where but literally into thin air. As does all the ammo spent on training, every single bullet going down range is represented as cost that we will NEVER see as a return. Last I checked, which was recently, 10 billion of the 2.3 billion spent per month is deemed "wasted" as in, the US sees no return on it at all (includes ammo, fuel, destroyed vehicles, cost of logistics from local/foreign sources). Feel free to read all of these PDFs to prove me wrong http://www.brookings.edu/saban/iraq-index.aspx

20% of the US budget is spent on the DOD, and you think the majority of that comes back as a return? Get real. The majority of the 144 billion a year comes back to the US as wealth? Bullshit. Trickle down economics never has, and never will work.


What we really need to do , is get the fuck out of there, kick all the gang bangers off social security, say fuck the tax cuts (http://imgur.com/TArK2.jpg) especially since it only effects the top 2% and those are the people who can afford it, and start putting money into making our country better. Say like our education, reforming malpractice laws (since thats where a shit load of money is spent on health care), infrastructure, ect ect. All of which will actually provide a net-gain for the country. As apposed to the sinkhole abyss that is afghanistan and current laws for social programs.


Study economics, its not that hard to see how to fix the economy and staying involved in a costly expensive war is NOT the reason. We won't see any gains from it at all when it ends, except that we won't be spending billions.


Not saying the wars are the sole problem, but they are most certainly a leading factor. 20% spent on DOD, 20% on medicare, 15% social security. All of those need reforms.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Lebru,

You are wrong in my opinion. Most logistic and USAID are handled by US contractors including fuel, ammo, etc etc. The production may not be US based, but it is US contractors. As comparison, many were screaming the Chinese are taking over the market and we are losing jobs by millions while the simple fact is the Chinese manufacturers are selling say tshirts to US companies for 1/10 of US production cost. These same companies are now making much higher markup. As US service sector is growing larger than its manufacturing base, we are becoming strictly middle person. Whether you agree with this or not, the majority of the profit in the transaction still sits in the middle person' pocket.

I would love to see some sources of your claim btw.

[hollohas]

Unless the price of E85 was less than a cost ratio of 77% compared to regular gas, it wasn't worth it just based off the MPG aspect.

^This. The MPG my Flex Fuel Tundra gets on E85 is 75% of that on gas. I have yet to see any E85 that is 75% of the cost of gas. Costs more to run E85.

Anyone else think that it's a little funny that 5 years ago everyone said doing more drilling in the US wouldn't help gas prices becuase it would take 5-10 years to hit the market? Now we are 5 years later and US produced oil would be nice to have...oops.

[tonantius]

The oil prices right now are controlled by market speculation in the Oil Futures Market. Inventories of crude and refined gasoline are currently high. There is no good reason for oil prices to be high other than the futures market. It is tied into the Muslim unrest in Libya and Bahrain, especially Libya. Europe gets a lot of its oil from Libya, which has light sweet crude, the most expensive crude. It is almost like diesel fuel.

The U.S. gets most of its oil from itself, Canada and Mexico. Some from Venezuela, and the rest from other parts of the world.

[lebru]

Lebru,

You are wrong in my opinion. Most logistic and USAID are handled by US contractors including fuel, ammo, etc etc. The production may not be US based, but it is US contractors. As comparison, many were screaming the Chinese are taking over the market and we are losing jobs by millions while the simple fact is the Chinese manufacturers are selling say tshirts to US companies for 1/10 of US production cost. These same companies are now making much higher markup. As US service sector is growing larger than its manufacturing base, we are becoming strictly middle person. Whether you agree with this or not, the majority of the profit in the transaction still sits in the middle person' pocket.

I would love to see some sources of your claim btw.

I didn't say the Chinese were taking over the market or stealing our jobs. But the majority of the food is brought in from foreign sources. Only 10% of the food supply is us based. This isn't a conventional war where we produce everything needed for our troops. And while a lot (not all) of the logistics are handled by US contractors, that doesn't mean all the money we pay them goes back into the US market. A lot of the food comes from India, Ukraine, and I think Lebanon used to be a large supplier of food (until they sent expired food goods), some company in Texas used to provide food until they got fined for misprinting expiration dates on the food. Just because they deliver the food stuffs, doesn't mean they create the food stuffs. Hell, we pay farmers NOT to grow crops.

Those contractors? They don't buy fuel from the US, which is where the majority of the expenditure comes from. It would cost 10x as much to bring food and fuel from the US to the middle east then it does getting it from local sources which is why they have moved a lot of it to local sources (also in hopes of growing the local economy)

Do you seriously believe all that money we are spending is ending up back in our economy? Because if you do, you are sadly mistaken. Those .pdfs break it down.


http://usdebtclock.org/

defense/war is the 3rd highest contributor. You want to talk about cutting spending, cut spending in the top 5 sectors to see any noticable increases. We can't just cut funding from schools or social infrastructure (roads, rails, ect) and expect to see any noticable reductions in the debt. Anyone with half a brain will realize the only way to do it is 1) cut spending (in the top 5 categories creating debt) 2) stop giving tax cuts to rich people (because a lot of our 'at risk' programs can be saved from that money, and its not like the rich need to be richer) 3) wait a few years 4) problem solved. Its high school level economics...

Its like if you have a really bad drug addiction, you know you have a drug addiction, you ran out of money, so what do you do? Suck someone elses dick for coke. Rather than cutting your bad habits and getting a job. America has an addiction to spending, first step is to cut the spending. Second step, get a job, in the governments case that comes from taxes(local and import tarifs) and exports.

BTW a lot of our gas has risen in price because we had to stop subsidizing it to help control the debt. Do your homework, fox news won't report it (especially since fox news higher ups are likely going to be indited for telling employees to purposely distort the truth and lie) but the BBC and CNN have reported on us cutting gas subsidies as part of controlling debt.

[DOC]

im down...can the women also wear short skirts

I don't see why not? Less weight in the car = better mileage. Are we the only ones that care about the environment?

[sniper7]

I didn't say the Chinese were taking over the market or stealing our jobs. But the majority of the food is brought in from foreign sources. Only 10% of the food supply is us based. This isn't a conventional war where we produce everything needed for our troops. And while a lot (not all) of the logistics are handled by US contractors, that doesn't mean all the money we pay them goes back into the US market. A lot of the food comes from India, Ukraine, and I think Lebanon used to be a large supplier of food (until they sent expired food goods), some company in Texas used to provide food until they got fined for misprinting expiration dates on the food. Just because they deliver the food stuffs, doesn't mean they create the food stuffs. Hell, we pay farmers NOT to grow crops.

Those contractors? They don't buy fuel from the US, which is where the majority of the expenditure comes from. It would cost 10x as much to bring food and fuel from the US to the middle east then it does getting it from local sources which is why they have moved a lot of it to local sources (also in hopes of growing the local economy)

Do you seriously believe all that money we are spending is ending up back in our economy? Because if you do, you are sadly mistaken. Those .pdfs break it down.


http://usdebtclock.org/

defense/war is the 3rd highest contributor. You want to talk about cutting spending, cut spending in the top 5 sectors to see any noticable increases. We can't just cut funding from schools or social infrastructure (roads, rails, ect) and expect to see any noticable reductions in the debt. Anyone with half a brain will realize the only way to do it is 1) cut spending (in the top 5 categories creating debt) 2) stop giving tax cuts to rich people (because a lot of our 'at risk' programs can be saved from that money, and its not like the rich need to be richer) 3) wait a few years 4) problem solved. Its high school level economics...

Its like if you have a really bad drug addiction, you know you have a drug addiction, you ran out of money, so what do you do? Suck someone elses dick for coke. Rather than cutting your bad habits and getting a job. America has an addiction to spending, first step is to cut the spending. Second step, get a job, in the governments case that comes from taxes(local and import tarifs) and exports.

BTW a lot of our gas has risen in price because we had to stop subsidizing it to help control the debt. Do your homework, fox news won't report it (especially since fox news higher ups are likely going to be indited for telling employees to purposely distort the truth and lie) but the BBC and CNN have reported on us cutting gas subsidies as part of controlling debt.

and what about the billions paid out for aircraft, ships, tanks, gear, guns, ammo, optics, clothing, etc etc.

or the money paid in direct salaries to the soldiers who have the money covering a home or providing for a family back home?

there is a cost to defending the country. yes, we would save a lot of money and cut the budget if we pulled out of afghanistan, but we also lose our presence in the middle east in a time when there is massive uprisings, Iran is on the verge of becoming a potential nuclear superpower, and we are still trying to clean up some of the messiest terrorist ridden places. hopefully that presence brings better views upon the US by the citizens of those countries. I personally don't think it will, but I am not out there in the front lines seeing what is happening. I can only judge and base my decision off what I hear and see, reading on here, the news, talking to soldiers which i do on a weekly basis thanks to my job.


what is the difference of the military buying gas from other countries in the middle east when most of our own gas that YOU fill up with isn't from the US? you think we refine it all too? dead wrong on that one.

just because someone posts a PDF doesn't make it fact. I can start a .org website and I will post opposite information and link that, then tell you that THOSE are the real numbers. I KNOW that DOD is a high expense, but there is also a cost to keeping a nation safe. I think of that as a high priority and it costs more. personally I would like to see half the troops at half the non-essential bases across the globe come home and get based on our southern borders, given orders to shoot anyone who tries to INVADE our country illegally.

and who are you to tell someone else they should pay more in taxes because they can afford it? that is one of the most liberal things to say. socializing the wealthy is not an end all answer. just ask the high paid liberals if they are okay paying 50% of their income to taxes when most people pay 15%. who cares if they have done better for themselves, worked to get somewhere. That is called the American dream. stripping that away takes away from the very ideas the country was founded on. Higher taxes are the reason we are a country in the first place and not some cross-ocean land of England. I would think very hard about that fact when you start talking about taxing more.

I want a fair tax system. gut the entire IRS and start over. no more personal income tax at a state or local level. just a strict sales tax. the new IRS will be responsible to collect only from places of business where goods are sold and taxes are collected. a federal tax will need to be placed on all purchases, interstate and intrastate alike. state tax like it is now, probably at a slightly higher rate.

the amount of tax income isn't going to change and the % will need to be researched and then implemented. very low income people could apply for a reduced sales tax rate and issued a card for such.

The last thing we need are more taxes. What we need is less taxes, less laws, less government, less handouts, less federal and state buildings, less ATF, CIA, DEA, and any other 3 letter organizations.