We need to organize an open carry day in Loveland and surrounding towns

[johngraves2]

Just hand them your CCW with your license. That's what I do. Blowing him/her a kiss is optional though.

Ya that is probably a good way to do it.

Also my cop buddy told me that when they run your name and everything, and you have a CCW, a hit will come up on your name, but it doesn't say what it is for or anything so they usually have to look at other things to see it is for the CCW.

[rondog]

Is it my imagination? It seems to me like whenever an open carry thread comes around, the LEO members are usually silent. Maybe I just don't know who they all are.

But, how about it? There's a lot of current/former LEO's on this board, how do you guys feel about OC, and how would/do you approach/deal with people you encounter OC'ing?

I have a CWP so I prefer to CCW, but I think OC is a wonderful thing. I very rarely see anyone doing it, and I won't do it myself because I'm scared to death of the legal hassles and expenses. I'm the guy that you'd read about in the paper that some cop clubbed or shot half to death because "he had a gun". Even though I'm just a fat, gray bearded old man now, that's just my luck, and I'd rather not risk it.

But I'd really love to hear the LEO view of the subject to know if my fears are unfounded or not.

[Elhuero]

Is it my imagination? It seems to me like whenever an open carry thread comes around, the LEO members are usually silent. Maybe I just don't know who they all are.

But, how about it? There's a lot of current/former LEO's on this board, how do you guys feel about OC, and how would/do you approach/deal with people you encounter OC'ing?

I have a CWP so I prefer to CCW, but I think OC is a wonderful thing. I very rarely see anyone doing it, and I won't do it myself because I'm scared to death of the legal hassles and expenses. I'm the guy that you'd read about in the paper that some cop clubbed or shot half to death because "he had a gun". Even though I'm just a fat, gray bearded old man now, that's just my luck, and I'd rather not risk it.

But I'd really love to hear the LEO view of the subject to know if my fears are unfounded or not.

[insert anti cop rant here]

[rondog]

[insert anti cop rant here]

No no no, I'm not anti-cop, not in the least. I'd just like to hear their viewpoint on the subject. They're the ones that have to deal with the calls.

[colocowboy01]

[insert anti cop rant here]

Why do most people who accept the status quo want to paint those of us who do not as haters?

My twin brother is a police officer, so I can assure you that I am not a cop hater. I just think that we should be able to show up armed anywhere we are going without living in fear.

Rondog, my brother is for the open carry day and is going to be there if he does not have to work.

[ldmaster]

WHY does a cop disarm a citizen during a contact? Because the law says he can. The supremes have ruled more than once that a peace officer "must be in control" during a contact or stop. The charge if someone refuses will be "obstruction of a peace officer in the performance of his/her duties" depending on jurisdiction. Alternatively, being charged with disturbing the peace (acting in a manner which tends to alarm) again, depending on jurisdiction and the wording of their ordinances.

Failure to obey a peace officer, who has given you a lawful order, has been adjudicated time and time again as obstruction. A citizen calls and the peace officer answers the call of an "armed man". What do you expect a cop to do?

"Uh, hey, you can keep your gun - even though I know with the reactionary gap you can draw and fire on me before I could respond..."

or

"I need you to turn away from me and interlock your hands over your head, I'm going to take your firearm away from you and search you for other weapons"

You REALLY expect a cop to NOT disarm you? He has to do his duty, but, again, the law has stated again and again that he is not obligated to place him/herself in danger to ANY degree, if it can be safely avoided. What a cop does then is what matters, returning the gun after the check with the explanation as to why they had to disarm a citizen would be ideal.

That being said, it might behoove those doing this to call the local PD, or drop by and explain what you are doing that day - a civil gathering in order to exercise your constitutional rights and make a statement about it. Unless you're TRYING to make a scene.

It's about preserving public peace and safety, you are either part of the solution (and thus informing the PD of your purpose that day) or you are trying to create a problem and the BEST you can expect is to be disarmed while you get yourself run on NCIC.

I open carry all the time, really, I do - never had a problem. Occasionally someone comments, and I tell them about it. Never had a problem with a cop either. But I know it can happen.

His "probable cause"? He/she (apologies to sister officers) doesn't need probable cause in order to "freeze" a situation to determine if a crime has been committed, and if a cop can articulate WHY you get a Terry frisk, he's covered. Pretty easy to articulate that you saw a gun, and stopped to determine if the person was a threat to safety. Or do you think a cop wouldn't get called up before his supervisor if a citizen said he just drove my a group of armed men without doing ANYTHING?

I think open carry demonstrations serve a very valid purpose, it trains the police department about the law and it's application to a citizen, but it shouldn't be something done in order to try and create a confrontation.

[Elhuero]

No no no, I'm not anti-cop, not in the least. I'd just like to hear their viewpoint on the subject. They're the ones that have to deal with the calls.

sorry, my post could have been clearer.

I'm agreeing with you. my reply would have been something that would probably have elicited a "you're just anti cop"

so instead of ranting, I just put in the usual [your ad here] disclaimer.

[Elhuero]

WHY does a cop disarm a citizen during a contact? Because the law says he can. The supremes have ruled more than once that a peace officer "must be in control" during a contact or stop. The charge if someone refuses will be "obstruction of a peace officer in the performance of his/her duties" depending on jurisdiction. Alternatively, being charged with disturbing the peace (acting in a manner which tends to alarm) again, depending on jurisdiction and the wording of their ordinances.

Failure to obey a peace officer, who has given you a lawful order, has been adjudicated time and time again as obstruction. A citizen calls and the peace officer answers the call of an "armed man". What do you expect a cop to do?

"Uh, hey, you can keep your gun - even though I know with the reactionary gap you can draw and fire on me before I could respond..."

or

"I need you to turn away from me and interlock your hands over your head, I'm going to take your firearm away from you and search you for other weapons"

You REALLY expect a cop to NOT disarm you? He has to do his duty, but, again, the law has stated again and again that he is not obligated to place him/herself in danger to ANY degree, if it can be safely avoided. What a cop does then is what matters, returning the gun after the check with the explanation as to why they had to disarm a citizen would be ideal.

That being said, it might behoove those doing this to call the local PD, or drop by and explain what you are doing that day - a civil gathering in order to exercise your constitutional rights and make a statement about it. Unless you're TRYING to make a scene.

It's about preserving public peace and safety, you are either part of the solution (and thus informing the PD of your purpose that day) or you are trying to create a problem and the BEST you can expect is to be disarmed while you get yourself run on NCIC.

I open carry all the time, really, I do - never had a problem. Occasionally someone comments, and I tell them about it. Never had a problem with a cop either. But I know it can happen.

His "probable cause"? He/she (apologies to sister officers) doesn't need probable cause in order to "freeze" a situation to determine if a crime has been committed, and if a cop can articulate WHY you get a Terry frisk, he's covered. Pretty easy to articulate that you saw a gun, and stopped to determine if the person was a threat to safety. Or do you think a cop wouldn't get called up before his supervisor if a citizen said he just drove my a group of armed men without doing ANYTHING?

I think open carry demonstrations serve a very valid purpose, it trains the police department about the law and it's application to a citizen, but it shouldn't be something done in order to try and create a confrontation.

you're right as well.


which is why I don't open carry.

[Byte Stryke]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Unless you are being stopped at a traffic stop, The State decided you must have pot in the car because you are wearing a jean jacket and long hair or you have Pro-Gun Bumper-stickers on your truck

[ZOMBIEMASTER223]

I am not one of Loveland's tax paying residents, however, if I were a tax paying resident of Loveland I would be concerned that my tax money was spent on paying off another citizen because the police may or may not have violated his rights

YOU REALLY ARENT VERY INFORMED OR INTELLIGENT ABOUT HOW THE BUSINESS WORLD WORKS ARE YOU...

BUSINESS'S AND GOVT'S DO NOT PAY SETTLEMENTS OUT OF THEIR TAXPAYERS POCKET, THEY CARRY ERRORS AND OMISSIONS AND JUDGMENT INSURANCES, THE INSURANCE COMPANY PAYS THE SETTLEMENT OR JUDGEMENT, ..... NOT THE TAXPAYERS...