Home defense, questions....

[KarlPMann]

Ummmm, very sorry to disagree, but.....

In one of the most publicized test cases when the law was passed....

A man, answering to a call of help from his neighbor, shot and crippled a 17 year old unarmed burglar as he ran away from the house. [poke] The defendant later tried to sue the man, but the case was dismissed under the make my day law's civil clause. Karl. :P :twisted:

[jesseb]

Ummmm, very sorry to disagree, but.....

In one of the most publicized test cases when the law was passed....

A man, answering to a call of help from his neighbor, shot and crippled a 17 year old unarmed burglar as he ran away from the house. [poke] The defendant later tried to sue the man, but the case was dismissed under the make my day law's civil clause. Karl. :P :twisted:

wow... yeah. i wouldnt rely on it though! and still, i wouldnt want to live with killing an unarmed 17 year old, who was actually fleeing. thats more legal murder, or at least attempted compared to self defense.

but then on the other hand if more people shoot first, ask questions later those punk ass 17 year olds who dont give a sh** might start thinking twice before they try these things in the first place.

[BadShot]

If you keep a fire arm near your bed at night... if you carry one in your car (purely for transport reasons.. uh yeah... that's it) or even carry one on you and you are not ready able and willing to shoot to kill, then sell the weapon or better yet, just put it in the safe until you're ready to head to the range.

The fact of the matter is that fire arms have one single purpose, the killing of a living being.. and if you believe that it isn't then please for the sake of all around you, step away from the firearm. I will even, rather militantly, challenge anyone to dispute that rather fundimental fact of small arms.

This is a great thread, it has hopefully caused several of us to give serious thought to the defense of our homes and property. There are conflicting stories and points of view on the law, but as I have said twice before, check it out for yourself... take a few minutes and see if you can stop by the local cop shop and grab a few minutes of an officers time. Call your DA's office and discuss it with them.. but don't just take what you see on the internet as complete.

Think about how you can and will defend your home. Have the discussion with your family and or roomates. Ensure you have a plan for dealing with home intrusion. Don't leave something like this to chance, you've already started down that road by purchasing and maintaining a firearm within your home, don't be negligent and stop there.

[jesseb]

[quote="BadShot"]If you keep a fire arm near your bed at night... if you carry one in your car (purely for transport reasons.. uh yeah... that's it) or even carry one on you and you are not ready able and willing to shoot to kill, then sell the weapon or better yet, just put it in the safe until you're ready to head to the range.

The fact of the matter is that fire arms have one single purpose, the killing of a living being.. and if you believe that it isn't then please for the sake of all around you, step away from the firearm. I will even, rather militantly, challenge anyone to dispute that rather fundimental fact of small arms.
quote]

thats not the point at all. the point was shoot because you HAVE to. NOT simply because you can.

there are more purposes rather than just killing people/animals. many guns are specifically made for recreation/competition and many would be horribly unfit for use as a weapon.
but yeah, i agree, for the most part they are made specificly for killing

[BadShot]

Not to nit pick, but I didn't say shoot because you can, I said realize that if you are not willing to take a life then don't pretend to have the weapon for self defense. Perhaps this is my personal training coming back to play..

1. Never pull a gun on anyone
2. If you have to pull a gun on someone, use it
3. If you're going to use a gun, make sure you kill what your shooting at

And thanks Jess.. I did neglect to think about the sport specific weapons, while the majority will still do exactly what they are based on (taking a life) most are geared to specific tasks other than killing.

[HunterCO]

If he (or she) is in your house and doing something illegal then you can kill them. They don't have to represent themselves as a threat to you.

WRONG

From 18-1-704 2(a)
(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:

(a) The actor has reasonable ground to believe, and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury

It's called homicide and wrongful death. If the bad guy is no longer a threat, the make my day law will no cover you guys; also just because someone is breaking a law does not give you a right to kill them...or attempt the same

CRS 18-1-704
Case Law Rulings:
When an initial aggressor withdraws from an encounter ......the initial victim continues the attack, the victim then becomes the aggressor and is no longer entitled to act in self-defense. People v. Goedecke, 730 P.2d 900 (Colo. App. 1986).
Right to kill in self-defense is not limited to cases where assailant intends to commit a felony. Ritchey v. People, 23 Colo. 314, 47 P. 272 (1896).

I'm not trying to start a pi55ing match, but I just wanted people to know they can not attempt to kill someone just because they are in your house. Being in the house is illegal if you didn't invite them in--trespassing.

A word of advice before you tell somebody they are WRONG when in fact it is you that are wrong you might want to actually read the correct statue. The physical force statue you quoted is not the make my day law. The make my day law clearly states a person is justified in the use of deadly force in their home when they have reason to believe an unlawful entry has been made and that person has criminal intent. It also states that a person who uses deadly force under that statue is immune from criminal or civil liability.

[KarlPMann]

Yup! Karl. [poke]

[chrisguy]

Couple years ago our house was robbed in broad daylight. I got home to let the dog out maybe 30min after they'd left, according to the neighbor -- who didn't call the cops despite the Neighborhood Watch/We Call Police sign 50ft from our driveway, and having said she "didn't think they should be there". [shock2] :evil:

Dog was a 16-y-o wolf mix who wouldn't have helped much, but provided enough deterrent to keep them from going past the barricade into the basement, where she and the TV and such were. They still got over $12k of stuff, and had picked up a big knife from the kitchen and a handmade Kali/Escrima stick (martial arts) - roughly a 1"x30" piece of cured birdseye maple. Definitely would have considered them armed with intent if I'd been there. Found both weapons on the floor near where they grabbed most of my wife's jewelry.

Cops were no help [detective] even though we had a good idea of who was behind it (not the ones who actually entered the house). Fortunately no one was hurt, and they never found the magnum. We did a full theft report natch, and because it was mostly jewelry that wasn't specifically valued/insured, we only got like $2k back.

Sorry to ramble... just wanted to add this for a real-life example. Had I been home at time of entry... blah blah blah blah blah... Had I arrived a bit earlier to find their truck in the driveway... we'll never know. Still torques me if ya can't tell. Oh and fyi they crawled in through the dog door. Ours is now sealed/boarded so thoroughly you'd need heavy tools and some time to bust it open, but if you've got one take a good look at the size. Many are large enough for a smallish person to squeeze through.

Stay safe all.

EDIT: thought about this post later and realized I probably came off badly. Removed what later sounded/looked like posturing about my martial arts. Also wanted to add that I'm not anti-cop, wasn't trying to cop-bash. Just frustrated with that particular experience all over agian, thinking about it... not their fault the prints didn't turn up anything, etc.

Carry on.

[Mule]

Ummmm, very sorry to disagree, but.....

In one of the most publicized test cases when the law was passed....

A man, answering to a call of help from his neighbor, shot and crippled a 17 year old unarmed burglar as he ran away from the house. [poke] The defendant later tried to sue the man, but the case was dismissed under the make my day law's civil clause. Karl. :P :twisted:

Ummm, Karl, is there something we need to know...... LOL

I look at it as if the guy is running away, probably outside the house, not carrying off my stuff or kids. He is beyond my responsibility to fling lead at.

On a side note.
I like to see how many sheep there are when I'm in a store. I often make people nervous checking them out, but oh well. Point is, I take inventory of everyone and run through scenarios in my noggin. I like to know ahead of time at what point I would draw and fire if something were to happen. Knowing a target and what's behind it, what ways do I have to escape, ect.... I feel better just having gone through the scenario (out or home). If I do have to shoot, I hope I am better prepared for that decision. It helps with stuff like what happened above to know what your first move would be.
Greg

PS.
I agree with jesseb on the intent to kill. If they die because I'm not a trick shot and have to shoot for their chest cavity, then that was their choice to put thierselves in that situation. I need a sticker that says "I'm a bad shot, so I'll be aiming for your chest so I can hit you. Oh yeah, it might kill you."

[Mule]

also, HunterCO/Karl.
At what point are we allowed to stop someone that has just robbed my house? ie, still on my property, running from it......