Any Idea's how this blew in half?

[ldmaster]

Webley and Scott went out of the firearms business in 1979. Only did airguns up until 2005. In 2005 they went out of business, their asset were purchased and the company became "Webley".

It's currently listed as "in liquidation" meaning bankrupt.

The website can say all it want about "proofing" and the like, but I severely doubt that after NOT manufacturing something for almost 20 years they came up with a magical design and had the tooling and machinery to start manufacturing firearms IN their facility.

Capitalizing on the Webley name is what it seems to be. They haven't filed corporate paperwork since 2008. So whatever they 'produced' for those few years couldn't have had much workmanship in the sense we're thinking. I'm thinking Chinese manufacture to "spec", or somewhere else. wouldn't be the first time a company tried to capitalize on a name, without the concomitant investment.

Anybody remember "Brolin Arms"??? Stood for "Brother's Lin" and it was a chinese company. They made a 1911 that was in a few magazines at the time. Webley and Scott is a fine OLD name and my "wobbly" revolver is a treasure to me, but they're not the same company at all. That being said, it's EASY to say "proofed in our Birmingham facility" but notice they don't say "built" there. Sorta weird too, that they don't have much in the way of gun lore on their web page - almost like they're not really gun folks anymore. But face it, NOBODY in England is gun saavy anymore since their total ban. The profession of gunsmith is all but dead.

I'll bet, though, that he's glad it didn't blow out on the left side of the chamber - where his face was - God was watching!

It would be instructive to have a metallurgist examine the barrels, and come up with composition and hardness/softness. Barrel making is an ART and it takes years of practice to get it right, just making something out of a steel that everyone thinks is a good barrel steel doesn't make it sturdy. I'm just fascinated that the chamber blew without even splitting the barrel.

here is an interesting posting about headspace and the like...

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=12&t=21710

[gcrookston]

Webley and Scott went out of the firearms business in 1979. Only did airguns up until 2005. In 2005 they went out of business, their asset were purchased and the company became "Webley".

It's currently listed as "in liquidation" meaning bankrupt.

In 1985 it was purchased by Holland and Holland. The 900k series was refined under their reign but not put into production. W&S had provided base guns to H&H for decades. In 2006 it was sold to Ags, who operate it to this day. Although I believe they manufacture the pellet gun lines of W&S in England, the shotgun lines are out sourced much like the agreements Browning and others have with various manufacturers.

I recall Shooting Times reviewed the 900k when it was introduced in 2007 or 2008 at a trade event in Europe and the components were being manufactured in Belgium and Turkey at that time and completed guns were being proofed through Birmingham (The Birmingham Proof House is the only establishment in England that proofs and strict compliances and proofing tests set the standards by which all others follow).

In late 2008 - early 2009 a group of investors was exploring the possibility of becoming the sole importer of the W&S line and we got to spend some time examining and enjoying examples of these fine guns. The entry level Grade 1 (which I believe is the gun in question), would have been priced retail around $1,600.00, graduating up to the 2000 series fully optioned at about $6,000.00+. However, as the recession deepened our funding dried up and the interest dissolved.

Currently I know of no importers or US distribution rights so I'm going to guess the gun came down out of Canada or from Europe with a returning service man.

[ldmaster]

to figure out how it got in the country, a blind man could see the marking

"Sporting Products LLC, Palm Beach, Florida" on the barrel.

I'd be looking for the actual proof marks though - looking at the law that specifies proofing pressures, that barrel (if actually proofed) shouldn't have failed.

Also gotta wonder why it has any bearing that Holland and Holland bought W&S and refined the 900, but never put it in production... Sounds like they just bought the rights, but never produced a gun - which is sorta the point, NOBODY made W&S guns until sold to AGS in 2006.

[SA Friday]

Even if the metal was iffy, I suspect it wasn't the first round ever fired out of it. Bad metal and a regular round, I suspect you wouldn't see such a catastrophic failure. This has all the ear marks of a heavy/double charge of powder or the wrong powder. The chamber literally had no chance of survival based on the pics of the aftermath. Looks just like when a revolver goes kaboom from a double charge.

[Hoser]

I would bet a paycheck on a double charge.

[Mobat555]

Forgot to include this pic originally, but you can see the crimped end barely opened up. Giving me odd feelings about path of least resistance.

[sandman76]

The final crimp on that shell does not look right. I've reloaded thousands of Rem. STS. My personal favorite. A crimp like that would have ended up in my disassembly bucket. Reloaders need to be very picky about what they shoot.

Not easy to actually get a crimp on a double charge. I've tried it on purpose to see what it would look like. It can be mashed down if you try hard though. Creates a compressed load=extra pressure.

Do you know what happened to the base of the shotshell?

[Mobat555]

Do you know what happened to the base of the shotshell?

We looked everywhere and couldn't find it. So you think the crimping could have cause part of the problem?

[sandman76]

Probably not the crimp itself. It's just the best indicator of a properly reloaded shotshell. My goal is to make them look like they came out of a new box. Not the easiest thing to do. It takes practice and a lot of trial and error.

Knowing the average weight of a complete reloaded shotshell is a good thing. I loaded a couple hundred where my powder drop wasn't opening all the way part of the time (better than overloaded but still not good) and used the scale to see if they were under weight.

Any suspects were disassembled.

[2008f450]

I have 2 questions. 1 was anyone else shooting the stage with him? 2. what was everyone else shooting. I have heard of a 20ga 12 ga load doing that. if he accidently dropped a 20 in then not knowingly dropped a 12ga behind it. If he was alone and everyone else shooting 12ga , i would say double charge. I have seen pistols destroyed with doubke charges. scary thing to see and hear.