More effective/fairer gun control

[The1andOnlyKC]

Why not just make gun education part of the education kids recieve at school? [abused]

[Ice Pirate]

OK, I'll bite.

First, as a retired weapons instructor, I'll be one of the first to say that proper weapons instruction should be first and foremost in any gun owner's mind when they go to buy a gun. I'd personally love nothing more than to see the proper firearms education of all Americans, young and old alike, become a given in this nation. I'd love and support fully the rebirth of local gun clubs and shooting organizations that could support such education. In a perfect world, all people who chose to own a firearm would be responcible enough to seek out and obtain the education that would make them good upstanding members of the firearms owning community.

However, should we make this a requirement of buying a gun? Even if we did make it a requirement, who could enforce such legislation? Oh sure, gun dealers and shops would be checking and ensuring the training, but what about Joe Blow who's looking to unload a gun so he can afford to feed his family. Do you honestly believe that he'll check someone's credentials before selling him a gun?

You've stated that, "Some people out there should not be allowed to own guns." Don't get me wrong, I actually agree, in part, with that statement. However, I can also tell you that on more than one occation, I've stated, when seeing little kids in stores using foul language, ignoring their parents, reaking havoc and totally out of control, "Some people out there should not be allowed to bear young." Afterall, it's often these same out of control kids who have no respect for their parents, or authority of any kind, who are most likely to commit crimes with firearms. Yet, we don't see anyone suggesting legislation to make it mandatory for parents to obtain training before plowing youngin's out like puppies, do we? An undisciplined child can be far more dangerous than any firearm know to mankind.

What this all really comes down to is RESPONCIBILITY. A responcible adult, will take it upon themselves to get the training necessary to ensure the safety of their weapons, and their family. There is no reason for the government to infringe upon the responcible citizens because there are so many out there who are not responcible enough to ensure these safetys.

Responcibility is why we maintain laws that punish the people who missuse their freedoms. Lack of responcibility is why we create laws to punish all in the hopes of preventing anyone from miss using their freedoms.

So as much as I agree that training is vitally important to anyone who owns a firearm, and as much as I feel that Parental education is vital for anyone who reproduces, I must disagree that these forms of training be made MANDATORY. Especially if we are to leave it to the Government to control. Haven't you ever heard the phrase that strikes fear in the hearts of all free Americans? "I'm with the Government, I'm here to help."

[robsterclaw]

All in all, firearms training in schools is a wonderful idea. In '85 and '86 I went to school with probably the most amazing human I've ever met. He was a Korean who was in the states because of an assissination attempt on his father's limo with him inside. He was taught in school how to take apart, break down and maintain M16's and other firearms. He was also trained how to fire, and be safe with guns. I'm sure the Teacher's union would crap a kitten, but it is a good idea. They gave a hunter's safety coarse in our school, on school time when I went to school in Iowa. All we had to do was pay the fee.

And in my opinion it hasn't been the lack of gun's rights groups to comprimise, that has caused the over abundance of gun limitation laws. It's the scare tactics of the MMM and liberals that have caused it.

Do you know how many people do not know that machine guns and silencers are legal in this state? Take a poll, and most "normal people" think they are already illegal. How hard would it be for the gun snatcher groups to get laws forbiding machine gun, and silencers passed on a state level? Not too hard, I think since so many already think they are. The uninformed would vote for that law. They would just go with the thought that since they thought they were illegal before, might as well vote to make it happen.

[Delphi]

^^^^^^

Very good guys, this is what I wanted to hear. Beautiful! And guess what I agree!

Ok guys, you know me; I build AK's I buy lots of guns, and show up at shoots with you. I'm on your side guys. I made this post as a devils advocate to spur some discussion, which I see, is much needed. Many of us cant or won’t listen to ideas that differ from our own. And in doing that, you look for simple, inadequate ways to shoot down that argument that was just made. In public opinion you would have a hard time convincing people that are uneducated in gun related issues, that the guy who just proposed something like what I just did would be wrong. You would just look like ignorant people that cant defend they're beliefs. And guess what, your good ole friend the gun grabber would have his way.

What you guys have to learn is to read something for what it's worth, what’s behind it or listen to what someone is saying and not just proclaim they are idiots and just move on. Because that wont prove anything to anyone, it will just make you look worse. As gun owners we all have a serious right, it is one that we must ALL defend, because sooner or later a gun grabber will want your guns. So I beg you guys, don’t do what you did here. Do what you saw Robsterclaw and Ice Pirate do, listen and than proceed to tearing apart everything that that person said with counter arguments. Don’t just say that the person who just proposed more gun control is an idiot. By doing what you have seen done above you don’t even have to say that the person is an idiot; the others listening in can draw that conclusion themselves. It is much more powerful to have the audience and potential voters think that the person is an idiot than if they just heard it from you.

So guys protect our rights, and fight with logical debate.
If I’ve made you guys angry, I’m sorry, but you know that I’m on your side and only trying to help.

I know many of you need the practice and would like to see what you can come up with. If you want please shoot it down some more. Also I will keep posting new “gun grabber” proposals so you guys can be more prepared for what might be thrown at you in the public arena. Get your practice in guys cause there are allot of gun grabber out they’re and I have dealt with enough of them to be able to impersonate them well.

Delphi
Fellow gun owner and friend that are just trying to help our cause.

[robsterclaw]

Delphi, sometimes I think talking to you is just a bunch of This is a gun oriented site, not the real world. If someone from the real world had said what you've posted, I'm sure it would have been debated. You're here and stated you like guns, want more of them, so when you (an informed gun friend) spout off some liberal type speak, it's going to get a different reaction then in the real world. I know that I for one can do more then hold my own in a gun arguement, and I'm only 37. I know many of the members here are older and wiser then I, so I'm sure they can hold their own also. Since this is the internet and I've never met you, I'll assume you told the truth about being 19. In that case I've been shooting guns and talking guns for longer then you've been alive, so in turn have many of the others here. If you want to have a healthy gun debate thread, start it upfront, don't play devil's advocate. It wouldn't hurt any to have a thread like that. It's just better without the pretenses.

[BadShot]

+1 to robsterclaw

[AR Will]

OK.........who let Sarah Brady in? :-x

[KarlPMann]

[roll] Yup, that's kinda where I was going with it. If I want debate, I'll show up at the local monthly meeting of the Democrat Club. :roll: What I want here is just discussions with my shootin' buddies. Karl. :P

[KarlPMann]

Oh, and who invited the "non-union" smiley? [poke] Karl.

[robsterclaw]

Karl, would you be referring to this one? That would be me. It conveyed my thoughts better then the ones I could find here. :P I could have used this one also. But I didn't feel that one was warrented yet.