More effective/fairer gun control

[Delphi]

Well sorry if i made you guys mad, was just tryin to help

I figured we can use all the practice we can get

[Great-Kazoo]

I figured we can use all the practice we can get


stop typing and start shooting. you'll learn more.

[Delphi]

Aye sir!

[Caliber357]

"Basically it would be a goverment regualted thing and would keep you much safer."

Hmmm... seems like Jim and I hit on the same snag there in your pitch. That phrase up there is a blatant contradiction in terms, in my opinion. Personally, I feel safer keeping whatever firearms I choose to own, where I choose to store them, and ready to fire should I choose when and where to pull the trigger. A trigger locked gun is a blunt club with which to strike, and a firesafe-stored gun doesn't even provide that meager protection. I feel a hell of a lot safer with my safety-less 5-shot .357 sitting on my nightstand than I do about my unloaded, safety-equipped hi-cap ak-47 sitting in my gunsafe. Know what I mean?

[Artyboy]

OK I'm bored so I guess I'll share my views on these issues.

Convicted Felons cant own a gun, Period. If found owning one minimum of 20 years jail time.

Convicted felons should be able to own guns. If a person is such a threat to me that they should never be able to own a firearm again then what the hell are they doing out of prison? Besides, if a convicted felon wants to get a gun they can. All this law does is effectively disarms the ones that wish to become law abiding members of society. Saying once a criminal always a criminal is a pretty big assumption. Noone should be punished based on an assumption. Once you do your time (jail time, probation, parole, everything) then you should have your rights reinstated.

Here's a little story for you. I've got a buddy who got in a fight with his girlfriend. They were yelling at each other and he finally got mad and punched a wall. She called 911. She told us that she didn't do it out of fear. She did it to spite him. By the time the cops got there they had kissed and made up and everything was fine. Because of the nature of the call the cops had to arrest someone. Now, because my 20 something buddy punched a wall, he can never own a firearm again for the rest of his life.

[quote="Delphi"]I believe that any firearm should be allowed to be owned, and any firearm be allowed to be manufactured and sold(as long as buyer has correct certification) including FA's. They should have lvl1-3 training. [quote]

I agree that all firearms should be available to the public. I don't think that anyone should have to take a class to own anything, though. Classes should be made available and encouraged but they should not be govt regulated or required. Teaching firearms safety in schools would be a good way to get people familiar with them and make some of the taboos go away. Untrained people that are negligent with their firearms would undoubtedly be dealt with more harshly in court. That should be enough to encourage training.

[Delphi]

Well I think I can take this one on.

The fact of the matter is that our system does not work, it's over crowded, and people that commit horrendous crimes get out after a few years.... Do you really want a Child Rapist, or a Murder that’s been in prison for 20 years to legally be able to buy a gun? I don’t. I agree with wtf are they doing out. But usually even ones who committed minor crimes come out of jail worse than they came in because they learned from the real bad guys. So i agree with making it illegal for a felon to buy a gun...

Now what your friend has done probably does not bar him from owning a gun, I don’t know what kind of a charge it was but it sounds an awful lot like a misdemeanor. I believe you can have those legally expunged and get your rights to own a gun again... Correct me if I’m wrong though.

[Merl]

"misdemeanor crime of domestic violence"

[Artyboy]

This is why I think disarming felons doesn't work. If a felon wants to get a gun they can. It's just as easy to buy a gun on the street as it is to get a gun in a store with all of the paperwork. Some would argue it's easier. By making laws that prohibit felons (or people with misdemeanor domestic violence) from owning firearms we're punishing them before they commit any crime. The only ones that won't go out and get a firearm are the ones that want to better themselves. We're taking away their right to self defense.

Here's another anecdote for you. A guy robbed a store when he was 18 years old. He went to prison and did his time. When he got out he opened his own business and became a productive member of society. Twenty years later he was robbed. He protected himself from the robber with a shotgun and ended up going back to prison for it. Over the course of those twenty years he had more than proven that he was reformed but because felons can never own a gun again he was punished for defending himself.

I'm not saying hand these guys guns as they're walking out the prison gates. I am saying, however, that when they're released and they finish their parole or probation that their full rights should be reinstated. If they commit another crime then we hammer them again. I don't know how long parole or probation can last but I assume it's several years in the case of serious crimes.

Disarming someone for having a misdemeanor domestic violence charge is absolutely ludicrous. I understand the concept but there are better, more temporary ways to handle that situation than permanently taking away someone's gun rights. There are people who took misdemeanor domestic violence convictions in plea bargains years ago who can't own a gun know since the law was passed.

Just for the record I also believe very strongly in capital punishment. I don't think that there's any greater deterrant than fear. That's why shall issue states have lower crime rates. If someone fears for their life then they're less likely to be pushed to commiting crimes. If someone proves that they're unfit for society by repeatedly commiting violent crimes then they should be put to death. Instead of coming up with laws that prevent people from possibly commiting crime we should be coming up with punishments that make people think twice about commiting crimes.

[2ndChildhood]

Artyboy, you make some convincing cases and I am torn.
On the surface, denying gun ownership to felons seems like a pretty straightforward way to make it harder/more penalty for bg's to have guns.
I know many here feel that _any_ restriction on gun ownership is another way of nibbling away at the edges of our rights and will eventually lead to loss of those rights.
Obviously, bg's who really want guns have no trouble getting them.

Your examples seem to me a demonstration of what's wrong with our legal system as much as anything else.
Mandatory sentencing = no room to consider mitigating factors and forces us into black and white decisions when in reality, everything is some shade of gray.
Domestic violence requirement that cops take _somebody_ away on a DV call again leaves no room for judgement calls good or bad.

[7idl]

"common sense" goes in hand with "resposibility".

No one (~) wants responsibility anymore, thus no common sense.


and the irony is that everyone (~) expects someone else to be responsible.