Open Carry Resistance in the Springs

[TheBelly]

All,

Yesterday I was OC in the Springs. I was informed by the manager on duty at the Buffalo Wild Wings that I went to that the carrying of firearms wasn't allowed.

I asked the manager if he had security to provide for my protection. The response was no.

I asked the manager if it was against corporate policy, or just his personal policy. He said that it was not against corporate policy.

I then informed the manager that I would not remove my firearm because I do not have a place where I feel comfortable storing it until I was done eating. I also informed the manager that by removing it, I believed that I'd been committing the felony of brandishing (I would have had to take it out of the holster to clear it), and that by asking me to remove it he was personally denying my 2nd amendment right.

I made sure that I pulled him aside so that he and I could have a quiet, fairly private conversation. My wife, and the assistant manager were the only other ones that heard.

Where are the holes, where did I commit any errors, and what can I do differently/better next time?

[Irving]

If he asked you to leave, you should have left. Otherwise, nothing wrong with voicing your feelings. It's his place though.

[DeusExMachina]

You could have been charged with trespassing.

[DD977GM2]

You seem to have conducted yourself fine and asked all the right questions in a way that doesnt make gun owners seem like psychos. I think you did just fine. The only thing I would be careful of is if an owner of any business outright asks you to leave.....do so without arguement so you dont get in trouble with the law.

Did the manager ask you to leave when you refused to take your pistol off and put it in your car or where ever?

I also would have mentioned you will in the future protest with your wallet for his personal beliefs on firearms and not being company policy and that you would take your business elsewhere. Was it his personal firearms beliefs? My understanding was it was from your post.

I hope you did some good if you ended up finishing your meal and that the douche will not make an example out of a future patron who is OC while they have some hot wings.

[fitz19d]

Doesn't sound like you went off the handle. But I'd also agree with leaving and then following up with either if he comes out, or in after the fact inquiries and a letter to corporate. That kind of thing is how some places have been pushed into following local laws when some manager takes things into their own hands.

As long as he was in one way or another saying that you needed to leave, whether civil or not it's opening yourself up to someone making the call and getting the trespass ticket.

[Byte Stryke]

Agreed, Sounds like you played it well.

BUT keep in mind, as others have said if the Manager or any employee or representative of the owner/leaser of the property asks you to leave and you dont, its time in the clink for criminal trespass.

I would like to bring up a question on this.
I thought it was law that it must be posted on the doors of Businesses.
Is this not the case?

[colocowboy01]

Not trying to be "nit-picky" but TheBelly has not stated that he was asked to leave the property by the manager, just that he could not carry a firearm there. I know I am just splitting hairs here, but are you trespassing if you have not been asked to leave? It would be the logical assumption that TheBelly was in fact asked by the manager to leave but just did not state that fact in his post. If in fact TheBelly was asked to leave then I agree that he should have done so while politely asking his questions and telling the manager that he had lost not only this customer but many more whom he would be telling about this situation.

I think he asked great questions of the manager and in such a way that was respectful.

[TheBelly]

The manager never asked me to leave. He simply stated that he does not allow firearms into his business because of all the Army guys that frequent the bar area.

There are no signs anywhere saying that carrying is not allowed.

It was about 1 PM when my wife and I were there. I think there were a total of 15 customers there, total.

We were sitting in the restaurant/eating area, not the bar area. The hostess offered the bar area, and I said that I was more comfortable sitting in the restaurant area. I don't ever refer to any carry firearm in any way shape or form.

Again, not once did he ask me to leave.

[Bailey Guns]

FYI: A private person or business entity can't violate or deny you your 2nd Amendment rights.

It also makes no difference whether it's the manager's personal policy or corporate policy. If someone in control of private property tells you to leave (which no one did...just saying) or that firearms are not allowed (which basically implies you need to remove the firearm from the premises) you are obligated to remove the firearm (ie: place it in your car, for example) or remove yourself with the firearm, or risk intervention from the po-po for trespassing.

You can also safely remove a firearm from your person, while holstered. I think you were really stretching on the "brandishing" (which doesn't exist in Colorado...it's called menacing) part.

[TheBelly]

You can also safely remove a firearm from your person, while holstered. I think you were really stretching on the "brandishing" (which doesn't exist in Colorado...it's called menacing) part.

how would I unload and clear a firearm without removing it from the holster?

whether it's called brandishing or menacing or what-have-you, doesn't it all have the same consequence?

My intention is not to try and get defensive, I just want others' points of view...