When do we stop f**king around, and declare thsis to be a war?

[bobbyfairbanks]

I am giong to have to slightly disagree with you a lil stuving. Making some drugs legal is one thing like weed, fine, but others should stay where they are as illegal. You make certain things like, lets say, meth legal, and you will have a huge problem. The fact that it is illegal has kept it from being used by lots of people just because, well, it is illegal. You make it legal and I think it will be like alchohol, only when you try it the one time with your friends, you get addicted. Who here has tried alcohol? Who drank before legal age? Who smoked weed illegaly? See what I'm getting at? We also have to face a certain fact that the youth is getting dumber every damn day so counting on them to be smart enough not to try something like Meth is out of the question. That one time use and you're screwed thing is the ringer that should keep it and other drugs like it illegal. I don't think anyone who argues for all drugs to be legal has put any thought into just how dumb humans really are. You want to make a serious attempt at getting rid of a serious problem, you get serious about the punishment. You make or deal drugs, bullet to the head. You get caught using "hard" drugs, one of your hands comes off. No questions asked. See what the use rate goes down to after putting those laws into affect.

Ya so I would guess that you are ok with the large federal government violating the constitution when ever they would like to. Ever hear of propaganda? Not everyone that tries Meth is addicted to it and are going to have there fall out. Shit it would help our country out if we let the idiots kill them selves with drugs. The key in legalizing it is that you cannot give out any state or federal aid to those people.

[mcantar18c]

Do you realize that our country is 15 T in debt and inflation has made the dollar only have 10% of its buying power as it did in 1913. Where are we going to get the money to support going down that Rabbit hole?

LOL.... I suppose we could find some spare change between the illegal Libyan conflict and the billions of $$ we send out to other countries for absolutely no legit reason.
Our current gov't doesn't give a damn about money.

I am giong to have to slightly disagree with you a lil stuving. Making some drugs legal is one thing like weed, fine, but others should stay where they are as illegal. You make certain things like, lets say, meth legal, and you will have a huge problem. The fact that it is illegal has kept it from being used by lots of people just because, well, it is illegal. You make it legal and I think it will be like alchohol, only when you try it the one time with your friends, you get addicted. Who here has tried alcohol? Who drank before legal age? Who smoked weed illegaly? See what I'm getting at? We also have to face a certain fact that the youth is getting dumber every damn day so counting on them to be smart enough not to try something like Meth is out of the question. That one time use and you're screwed thing is the ringer that should keep it and other drugs like it illegal. I don't think anyone who argues for all drugs to be legal has put any thought into just how dumb humans really are. You want to make a serious attempt at getting rid of a serious problem, you get serious about the punishment. You make or deal drugs, bullet to the head. You get caught using "hard" drugs, one of your hands comes off. No questions asked. See what the use rate goes down to after putting those laws into affect.

Agreed. Its a shame we did away with corporal punishment.

Ya so I would guess that you are ok with the large federal government violating the constitution when ever they would like to. Ever hear of propaganda? Not everyone that tries Meth is addicted to it and are going to have there fall out. Shit it would help our country out if we let the idiots kill them selves with drugs. The key in legalizing it is that you cannot give out any state or federal aid to those people.

When did violating the Constitution come into play here?
Maybe not EVERYONE that tries meth, coke, heroin, etc. gets addicted, but most do. I won't say too much here cause I have no firsthand experience on the matter, but the fact is that the stuff IS extremely addictive. I do think that we should just remove the warning labels on everything and let the problem solve itself, but legalizing drugs like these is a no-no. It may kill off the less intelligent among us, but in doing so it'll turn the country into a meth-infested shithole.... in other words it'll turn any significantly populated area into Detroit.
And you don't need to legalize drugs to avoid giving aid to those people. Just put a "Do they use drugs?" box on the requirement list.

The thing I don't get is why people think that legalizing drugs will kill off the cartels. Doing away with the prohibition didn't kill off the mafias, just eliminated bootlegging from their list of means of income. Sure, it'll put a good sized dent in their wallets, but they'll just step up their efforts in other areas to compensate for it.

[Irving]

The mafia did turn to other ways to make money, but they weren't able to deal in something that 90% of the population was interested in.

I have so many more thoughts about this, but it's so late and I am so tired. Basically, drugs have been around since we've been around, and it hasn't been a crippling problem in the past. Not for long anyway. Things aren't the same as they were then though. You can't off a meth head for stealing your stuff like you could in the 1600's.

[streetglideok]

Right now lets face it, there isn't any real consequences to using drugs. So you want to become a meth head, or a heroine addict? No problem, its out on the streets. Oxycoton(sp)?Sure thing, thats legal even. You may get caught, and sent to jail, big deal. 3 hots and a cot, they are good to go. When out, theres different social programs to support the non-working deadbeat, why bother to work? Problem starts to grow when the drug users who want to make it a lifestyle cant afford their drugs, and start to steal from us working folks, or try to rob us to pay for it. Then it affects everyone. Solution is several steps, beginning with elimination of entitlement programs. If they cant get a job, there is plenty of trash or sidewalks to sweep. If they dont do that, let them starve, Darwin's law. If convicted of a crime in a violent nature, and they were on drugs, capital punishment, get rid of the scum. Otherwise revoke citizenship and deport them. Even if they were born here. No one else wants them? Thats no longer our problem, let them swim. It stops being fun doing drugs when mommy and daddy are no longer feeding them, or handing out money, and they starve to death.

[BigMat]

As to people trying meth because they are dumb-

I agree, people are dumb, as evidence, I was a dumb DUMB kid. The one thing I can say for sure, I tried a couple drugs, (nothing too hard, not that dumb) for the most part, because drugs were a hell of a lot easier for a kid to get than booze. We could round up whatever drug we wanted, in under an hour. Booze, that one would require stealing from your mom and dad. If you have a teenage kid, I am sure they will confirm this assessment, excluding nerds and straight edge kids, no one talks to them.

If things are in a store, and you don't get to buy as much as you want, and then you get crack downs on growers and producers, I bet we see more controls on use, even with it legal. You can make meth in a 2L soda bottle in your house in a couple of hours. Shrooms, you have jars? Seriously, it is too easy to produce to stop with prohibition, ignore the border, they just make it cheaper and want in on the money. If they weren't packing it in, we would be producing it. It makes back country stills look like rocket science.

I think we would be better served if it was legal, monitored, and taxed. Use the revenue to keep people out of jails and create some more effective treatment options. I am sure it would be much cheaper than the system we have now. And if Coca-Cola or Philp-Moris had a cut in the profits, you could be sure the cartels in Mexico don't have a chance. They may play dirty, but you can't beat American business when the rules are relaxed.

No need to shoot meth addicts either, that's a self solving situation, they have it covered.

[Pancho Villa]

At some point, you have to accept that humans are responsible for their own actions.

Are hard drugs destructive to you if you abuse them? Are some drugs just plain bad for you? Sure.

Not my business, and I am kinda pissed off that I get taxed every quarter to pay for policing other peoples' business.

I mean, the argument that some people will abuse drugs and then produce "horror stories" that the paleocons will use to get them outlawed could be used for alcohol as well. I think its not controversial to say that alcohol is at least as destructive on a per-numbers basis (drunk driving, alcoholics, etc) as any other "hard" drug. Hey, let's bring back alcohol prohibition! It worked so well the first time!

At some point the paleocons have to accept that prohibition was a failure because telling people what they can and cannot put in their bodies isn't the state's business and trying to do so isn't just impractical, but immoral.

I don't really wonder why conservatives have failed for years to do significant rollbacks on the welfare state; they don't have any fundamental disagreement with it, they just want to tweak it. After all, if its the state's responsibility to make sure you don't ingest bad things for you, why isn't it the state's responsibility to support you with welfare, give you free healthcare and ensure all the foods you are allowed to eat are healthy?

Big brother is there to protect you from yourself, and if the people can't be trusted to not shoot themselves up with meth then how on earth can they be trusted to eat right, save money for unemployment or choose a good healthcare plan?

[Ronin13]

Pancho, all very good points. In fact, that's the truth right there about everything. Why is it the gov's business to protect us from ourselves? Wanna ride your motorcycle without a helmet? Ok, but if you crash it's your own fault. That's one of those laws that Colorado hasn't enacted... yet.. but it goes along the same lines. I wouldn't approve of a blanket legalization of all drugs, but some of the lesser harmful ones would probably become acceptable (from research and watching NatGeo: Marijuana, MDMA, LSD and mushrooms are near the bottom of the danger list- if done with reason and moderation). But like anything, cigarettes, alcohol, even scrip drugs, you abuse, you can die.
Now, to slide back on track a bit, I saw a documentary about the situation at the border, and they showed the civilian populous who sits down there and watches the border. They spot several armed men crossing into the US and right there I think it's an armed invasion of sovereign US territory by armed aggressors, how are we not at war? I say give the patriots down there permission to engage hostiles, no just sit back and call Border Patrol who will take who knows how long...

[BREATHER]

"The War" on drugs will never be won until someone grows a pair and start taking graft, corruption and bribes as treason and punish it as such. Look up definition of treason. "They" are saying it is a declared war, at least that is how "they" make it sound.

There is corruption on both sides of the border. It's just not the criminals ,that are getting wealthy. We, the working lower middle class, are the chumps.