USPSA rifle ?

[MarkCO]

A few comments...

First, one of the benefits of running under the USPSA banner is liability. Outlaw is just that, and there are risks that some ignore, and others that hope they come out okay if something bad happens.

Second, USPSA completely revamped the rules in MG due to input from competitors. CRCPS is one of only a VERY few clubs, maybe the only one, that has actually run matches under the new 2011 provisional rules.

Third, CRCPS has the facilty and props to run these kind of matches, be it PCC, SMG, rifle only, pistol-carbine etc. We have two more MG matches this year, 9-3 and 10-1. Come on out and try it, you might like it. But, more importantly, if you are willing to design the stages and set them up, I am MORE than willing to offer a date (1st Saturday) for you to try out a different format. My intent is to run 5 to 7 MG matches per year, so the other dates are open and if a new match format draws, we can keep doing it.

CRCPS will be running a major MG match next year, already have section and area approvals, but the format is not set. If you want to be involved and help decide that, I am all ears.

Best,
PS, the "you" means anyone reading this, not just Hannu.

[275RLTW]

MarkCO,

how about a website we can see what/where CRCPS is? Perhaps list of current matches/schedule and a heads up for the next one (especially set up day)?

Gracias amigo

[MarkCO]

MarkCO,

how about a website we can see what/where CRCPS is? Perhaps list of current matches/schedule and a heads up for the next one (especially set up day)?

Gracias amigo

Match announcements go out on the USPSA ECO results list and they are on www.crci.org under "Event Schdule"

We just have 2 more MG matches this year on the calendar, Sept 3 and OCt 1. 2nd Saturday is USPSA Pistol, 3rd Saturday is Steel Challenge, 4th Saturday is Precision Rifle, 4th Sunday is Cowboy. There are also Zoot matches, and these are just for the East Range. They have all of the traditional straight line disciplines plus sporting clays as well.

[Hannu]

I have lots of stage diagrams just ready to go.
If you guys are interested, here is a link to Finnish 2011 Rifle Nationals stage diagrams: http://personal.inet.fi/yhdistys/tip...e%20Staget.pdf

Match was in military area, so use of steel was limited. They would allow to use of "Jaster" targets, but in my opinion those targets suck in a match.

Makr, I will keep that in mind - should have more time after US pistol Nationals...

[C Ward]

First I think a little history of 3gun / practical rifle in Colorado is needed . This is all my recollection of the events as related verbally to me by the participants .
3gun started at AGC as an additional discipline with in the USPSA/PSAC banner with people that shoot pistol as well as the SOF matches , The original outlaw 3gun match . After a period of time certain individuals within PSAC decided to do away with 3gun with out consulting the 3gun match director and PSAC's involvement with 3gun ended and a generally bad taste in the 3gun communities mouth over the way it was handled was created .
This is when the original RM3G organization started running monthly matches at AGC , PWSA , and Clear Creek on a rotating basis . In approx 2000 the PWSA match split off and was run by Eddie , Hoser , Vickie , and others over the years . The PWSA matches evolved from 3gun to rifle / shotgun to the rifle match as it is today . The Weld county matches and the others put on by CMG came about in the mid 2000's because of the dealings of the then President of RM3G and the majority of the old time shooters parted ways and started there own organization .
The recent involvement of USPSA with 3gun has been a very rough road and as indicated by match attendance , not the way the majority of shooters want to pursue the 3gun discipline , the USPSA matches regularly go unfilled where the outlaw matches sell out in seconds with online sign up .
Looking back on the SOF rules the USPSA would go crazy over what was accepted , IE. re holstering a hot pistol on the clock . The core group of 3gun shooters in Colorado come from this back round , with some of us being the match staff that ran the last SOF match at NRAWC . This has colored the way we think matches should be run and what we like to shoot .
The way I understand it IPSC rifle is mostly paper targets and a small portion steel . While I see paper targets as a good thing because accuracy is defined . With targets 200 - 300 yards out scoring them slows stages way down especially if you can only shoot 1 shooter per target array .
The other issue I see is the trend today to relegate a carbine to shooting fast at CQB distances , its a rifle the idea is to affect change at distance .
So to the guys that want a CQB rifle match more power to you all you have to do is put in the work and make it happen and there in lyes the part that most people don't want . It's easier to be a consumer than a provider .

[Hannu]

Just a quick note about IPSC rifle...

Why paper targets are widely used ? Reason is you can not just estimate holdover and/or wind, shoot few rounds and try to hear "klang". With paper, you have to know where you are shooting because you can not see or hear if you hit or not.

That is good and bad thing... Good thing; it takes more shot calling ability eg. basic rifle skills.
Bad thing is slow stage resetting, which can be however resolved many ways... One is separate RO(´s) near long range targets, naturally behind some cover

Other solution is to use ATV to take RO (and shooter if he/she wants) to the targets fast. More fun: combined 4 wheeling and shooting experience

Both have been tested and tried with good success, and happy wheelers & shooters.

Anyway, many rifle IPSC matches are going more and more short-range-paper-long-range-steel just to make matches run faster.

But like said earlier, I do not recommend to adopt IPSC rules 100%. Those rules can and should be improved, not just adopted

[jmg8550]

Maybe if there was also a class for .30 cal shooters. Kinda like heavy metal or he-man in 3 gun.

[VNgunfighter]

Just a quick note about IPSC rifle...

Why paper targets are widely used ? Reason is you can not just estimate holdover and/or wind, shoot few rounds and try to hear "klang". With paper, you have to know where you are shooting because you can not see or hear if you hit or not.

That is good and bad thing... Good thing; it takes more shot calling ability eg. basic rifle skills.
Bad thing is slow stage resetting, which can be however resolved many ways... One is separate RO(´s) near long range targets, naturally behind some cover

Other solution is to use ATV to take RO (and shooter if he/she wants) to the targets fast. More fun: combined 4 wheeling and shooting experience

Both have been tested and tried with good success, and happy wheelers & shooters.

Anyway, many rifle IPSC matches are going more and more short-range-paper-long-range-steel just to make matches run faster.

But like said earlier, I do not recommend to adopt IPSC rules 100%. Those rules can and should be improved, not just adopted

I think you are contradicting yourself here. Regardless of where the targets are located, paper or steel, the shooter should know his holdover. I still don't understand the benefits of paper past 100yards. And am an advocate for reactive steel.

I just don't see any reason for the shooter,RO and driver to travel downrange, there is way too much time lost here, and if there is going to be any paper it should be inside 100 yards.

Plus look at these stages you posted, and I think you could run 2 in a berm if the width is good. The look simple to set up and look like speed shoots to me. So for that matter with targets in banks of course the match will run faster. And there is very little movement.

[VNgunfighter]

Maybe if there was also a class for .30 cal shooters. Kinda like heavy metal or he-man in 3 gun.

100% for this as well.

There are so many rifle shooters here on the front range and over the hill. That if this match was managed correctly, the bolt gun drivers, SMG dudes, carbines, rifles, and everyone else could come and shoot this match.

But .....I still don't know the intention of the question "USPSA Rifle Match"?

Would this be a national level outlaw match, or just a weekend blastathon?

[C Ward]

Having RO's down range to score targets is a no go at the clubs I shoot at because they will not allow it irregardless . Also the USPSA rules allows for the shooter to see the targets before they are scored / taped and this means there would be time from clearing the shooter till going down range and back added in to the turn around time .

Don't get me wrong I'm all for shooting paper at distance but in a typical action style match format it's just not practical .

The good shooters don't employ the cone of fire on the long range steel they know there holds and typically go 1 for 1 in my experience . The ones I see that do poke and pray are the guy's that spend all there time using there rifle at pistol distances .