Islam on capital Hill

[Mtn.man]

And on another note You young Dumb people don't have any idea what this country was founded on. And you think that PC is the way to go don't offend those that are different. My dad fought in 2 wars and I listen to him all the time and we are Going down probably below a 3rd world nation and You are Proud. Get a fuk'n grip.

Grow up and get some balls and quit kiising up to our pres and our government. you pussies will surrender your guns as soon as they knock on the door.
That is why I say Ever day you lose something because you are too stupid to realize it is happening.

We had a Prayer Day (Christian) and now we need a Islamic Prayer day Fuk you.

[nynco]

And on another note You young Dumb people don't have any idea what this country was founded on. And you think that PC is the way to go don't offend those that are different. My dad fought in 2 wars and I listen to him all the time and we are Going down probably below a 3rd world nation and You are Proud. Get a fuk'n grip.

Grow up and get some balls and quit kiising up to our pres and our government. you pussies will surrender your guns as soon as they knock on the door.
That is why I say Ever day you lose something because you are too stupid to realize it is happening.

We had a Prayer Day (Christian) and now we need a Islamic Prayer day Fuk you.

What was this country founded on Mtn.man? White power? I have not said anything about PC. Thats you projecting your own fears. I said its your right to hate who ever you want. It still gives you no right to take away another Americans Constitutional rights. The US has many problems allowing Americans their Constitutional rights is not one of them.

As to calling me a pussy and me not believing in gun rights. If I did not believe in the 2nd Amendment, I would not be on this board.

[Mtn.man]

Yeah Uh Huh.

[CMP_5.56]

5 pages of the same argument from a previous thread last week. You talk about islam, then somebody uses the constitution to stand up fir them. All the while never thinking about the fact that Islam is a societal belief structure. Including religion, Sharia law and keeping the church and state as one entity.

Our constitution and bill of rights call for the separation of church and state. Which Islam, if a true practicing Muslim, includes Sharia. To practice Sharia in the United States is to go against our constitution, which means you forfeit the rights it gives. If you choose to live outside our laws, you chose to lose your rights. So by practicing Islam, not just a religion, you forfeit the right for it to be protected for you to do so.

[BigMat]

I have one question for all of you that are bent out of shape about Islam being religion/gov't.

there is a new guy running for pres. right leaning, pro-gun, pro-life, small gov't, less taxes, the whole right leaning package, but he is an affirmed atheist. Hell, one up it, he is Satanic (hasn't killed a goat or anything weird). Do you vote for him? You willing to put your pen to paper, making him the POTUS? For many of you, I have my doubts. To claim that Islam is weird because the line gets fuzzy is nonsense, every religion, EVERY religion, does.

The Constitution didn't lay out who gets what, you can pray to a retarded space goat that eats its own shit for all I care, not my problem, hell, if you want, get a petition, pass a law, and legalize Goat Prayer at NFL games. Go for it.


I say if you want to ban it, you are the one who is willing to ignore, and BETRAY the document my ancestors fought, and a few of them died, to protect. Hows that for PC?


When someone takes the pledge I care about one part, the flag they say it to, so long as they are a loyal and good American, the "under God" part can be referring to a goat in their head, that's their business, and theirs alone.


You can't take the rights you don't agree with and expect yours to be protected. If freedom of religion is off the table all the sudden because of "white men with guns." I have a feeling if that happens there is no way anyone will have your back when the guns are on the table. There is no footnote in the Constitution that says "or whatever, pick the parts you want"


If my freedom means people get to pray to a God I don't believe in, in a religion I don't understand, that means they are working!

Rock on America, this place is the best, even our "enemy" wants to live here. By the way, there are plenty of Muslims out there today, in the trenches next to the bravest sons and daughters of the US, shooting their own religious brethren. Hell, that means there are Muslims out there, right now, doing more to stop terrorism and protect the freedoms we enjoy in the US than YOU (assuming you aren't reading this from the Mid-East)! Hows that for something to chew on?


P.S. ball check comes up as two, thanks for the concern.



I have stopped seeing the political spectrum in the US as Right v. Left, I think this is a political creation. It seems to me the more honest and real divide is Freedom v. Control. Tax levels, minimum wage, social security, welfare, gay marriage, at the end of the day, this stuff is all small fries that in 100 years no one will remember, what people will remember is if our freedoms were protected or if they were lost. That's it, I am just waiting for the people from the far left and the people from the far right to realize what they really want is the freedom to be left alone, be it to smoke a pipe, marry a dude, or own a high cap magazine to protect their family. These people will realize they share little down deep with those they once saw as allies politically beyond surface level fluff, like tax loopholes. The true, and principled respect of freedom means, you have to respect the freedoms that you don't enjoy, thereby giving others the same freedom, if you can't do that, you like control, its just a matter of admitting it. No one wants control leveled on themselves, the question is, do you want control leveled on others?

[Byte Stryke]

Islam is not just a religion...

if it were, your arguments would be valid.

its like saying that because I believe that killing everyone that doesn't believe the same way I do is my religion I should be allowed to do it.

Freedom of religion ends when it transgresses on the rights of others.

[BigMat]

Islam is not just a religion...

Name me one religion that is. Every religion I can think of involves a moral code, a way of life and a system of rules and judgments...at the least. these outside factors do play into society, the issue is just one of degree. Bang your iHead on the iWall all you want, but you are deluding yourself if you think Christianity is "just" a religion. Christian leaders lobby, plan, boycott, organize and petition, all outside of church hours. Just because their line is closer to ours makes the beliefs of others no less valid, and deserving of no fewer rights. If there is a single religion on earth that ends with whats in your heart and what you believe I am unaware of it.


Islam does have rules in Sharia that bleed into society, true. There is no refuting this, but so does every religion. If you are going to tell me Christianity hasn't denied "freedoms" to people in this country you are deeply mistaken. Just as you may see the second protecting 30 round mags and "those shoulder thingies" they may see their freedoms differently, marriage being a big one, A HUGE ONE. If you are going to tell me that your high-cap mags are more important to you than your spouse, you may need to keep your wife from reading this thread, and that "right" is denied, because its a "sin." No other reason for this ban is logical, sound, ethical, or holds water from more than a minute. -if you are going to say "sanctity of marriage" hold it for one second, in Sharia law, adultorers (sp.?) can be stoned to death...they may be onto something. That would help keep mom and dad at home, and probably drastically lower the divorce rate in the US! If you are anti-gay marriage "for the children" you better be anti-divorce "for the children," and maybe even pro-stoning "for the children" because dammit they're children!


Children are allowed wine in church, however, fully grown, independent American adults are not allowed other mind altering substances in their religion. Sure one is more sever, but the other is OK for children, No religion bias there...



Freedom of religion does end when it transgress the rights of others, agreed...can you elaborate how this prayer day transgressed your rights? why, for that matter, does polygamy transgress your rights? How about, peyote? Snake charming? Any rights transgressed yet? For that matter, does Sharia, when practiced in a subset of society, and not involving vigilantism (which is illegal, regardless of religious orientation), transgress YOUR rights?

[Byte Stryke]

Name me one religion that is. Every religion I can think of involves a moral code, a way of life and a system of rules and judgments...at the least. these outside factors do play into society, the issue is just one of degree. Bang your iHead on the iWall all you want, but you are deluding yourself if you think Christianity is "just" a religion. Christian leaders lobby, plan, boycott, organize and petition, all outside of church hours. Just because their line is closer to ours makes the beliefs of others no less valid, and deserving of no fewer rights. If there is a single religion on earth that ends with whats in your heart and what you believe I am unaware of it.


Islam does have rules in Sharia that bleed into society, true. There is no refuting this, but so does every religion. If you are going to tell me Christianity hasn't denied "freedoms" to people in this country you are deeply mistaken. Just as you may see the second protecting 30 round mags and "those shoulder thingies" they may see their freedoms differently, marriage being a big one, A HUGE ONE. If you are going to tell me that your high-cap mags are more important to you than your spouse, you may need to keep your wife from reading this thread, and that "right" is denied, because its a "sin." No other reason for this ban is logical, sound, ethical, or holds water from more than a minute. -if you are going to say "sanctity of marriage" hold it for one second, in Sharia law, adultorers (sp.?) can be stoned to death...they may be onto something. That would help keep mom and dad at home, and probably drastically lower the divorce rate in the US! If you are anti-gay marriage "for the children" you better be anti-divorce "for the children," and maybe even pro-stoning "for the children" because dammit they're children!


Children are allowed wine in church, however, fully grown, independent American adults are not allowed other mind altering substances in their religion. Sure one is more sever, but the other is OK for children, No religion bias there...



Freedom of religion does end when it transgress the rights of others, agreed...can you elaborate how this prayer day transgressed your rights? why, for that matter, does polygamy transgress your rights? How about, peyote? Snake charming? Any rights transgressed yet? For that matter, does Sharia, when practiced in a subset of society, and not involving vigilantism (which is illegal, regardless of religious orientation), transgress YOUR rights?

So you are saying that their freedom of religion outweighs everyone else's rights to life?
Because as I have said before, its not just a religion with some moral code.
Its is an absolution of law that requires conversion and obedience under penalty of death.
Been there, Done that. Seen the beheadings and hangings in front of the "Justice Ministry"

[CMP_5.56]

Name me one religion that is. Every religion I can think of involves a moral code, a way of life and a system of rules and judgments...at the least. these outside factors do play into society, the issue is just one of degree. Bang your iHead on the iWall all you want, but you are deluding yourself if you think Christianity is "just" a religion. Christian leaders lobby, plan, boycott, organize and petition, all outside of church hours. Just because their line is closer to ours makes the beliefs of others no less valid, and deserving of no fewer rights. If there is a single religion on earth that ends with whats in your heart and what you believe I am unaware of it.


Islam does have rules in Sharia that bleed into society, true. There is no refuting this, but so does every religion. If you are going to tell me Christianity hasn't denied "freedoms" to people in this country you are deeply mistaken. Just as you may see the second protecting 30 round mags and "those shoulder thingies" they may see their freedoms differently, marriage being a big one, A HUGE ONE. If you are going to tell me that your high-cap mags are more important to you than your spouse, you may need to keep your wife from reading this thread, and that "right" is denied, because its a "sin." No other reason for this ban is logical, sound, ethical, or holds water from more than a minute. -if you are going to say "sanctity of marriage" hold it for one second, in Sharia law, adultorers (sp.?) can be stoned to death...they may be onto something. That would help keep mom and dad at home, and probably drastically lower the divorce rate in the US! If you are anti-gay marriage "for the children" you better be anti-divorce "for the children," and maybe even pro-stoning "for the children" because dammit they're children!


Children are allowed wine in church, however, fully grown, independent American adults are not allowed other mind altering substances in their religion. Sure one is more sever, but the other is OK for children, No religion bias there...



Freedom of religion does end when it transgress the rights of others, agreed...can you elaborate how this prayer day transgressed your rights? why, for that matter, does polygamy transgress your rights? How about, peyote? Snake charming? Any rights transgressed yet? For that matter, does Sharia, when practiced in a subset of society, and not involving vigilantism (which is illegal, regardless of religious orientation), transgress YOUR rights?

You are right, religions all have a st of rules. They all bleed into society based on, in large, being the majority in the society. I am personally not against gay marriage. I dont care who you want to spend the rest of your life with. Calling it marriage instead of any other term for a lifetime legal binding partnership is what gets most people up in arms. I think it is based in the fact the terms marriage, married etc. all stem from religion, namely christianity.

My problem with islam is that of all religions I see, and I'm going into extremist church branches or anything, but the base of that religious belief is to be looked at. Of all religions i have ever studied, read about, or been introduced to, Islam is the only one whose laws of the religion would conflict with the laws of our country. To be a true Muslim means you practice Sharia, if you practice Sharia you break the laws of our nation, which in turn means you forfiet your rights.

People want to stand up for the constitution, and I am sure one of those people, but the basis of rule of law means you agree to live inside the law, or outside the law. When you choose outside you don't just break the laws you want to and keep the rights. No you lose the protection of the law you chose to ignore.

[Ridge]

5 pages of the same argument from a previous thread last week. You talk about islam, then somebody uses the constitution to stand up fir them. All the while never thinking about the fact that Islam is a societal belief structure. Including religion, Sharia law and keeping the church and state as one entity.

Our constitution and bill of rights call for the separation of church and state. Which Islam, if a true practicing Muslim, includes Sharia. To practice Sharia in the United States is to go against our constitution, which means you forfeit the rights it gives. If you choose to live outside our laws, you chose to lose your rights. So by practicing Islam, not just a religion, you forfeit the right for it to be protected for you to do so.

So now your argument to suspend the first amendment is because when it applies to a particular religion, they are exempt because their religion also features a form of government?