Islam on capital Hill

[BigMat]

Islam is not just a religion...

Name me one religion that is. Every religion I can think of involves a moral code, a way of life and a system of rules and judgments...at the least. these outside factors do play into society, the issue is just one of degree. Bang your iHead on the iWall all you want, but you are deluding yourself if you think Christianity is "just" a religion. Christian leaders lobby, plan, boycott, organize and petition, all outside of church hours. Just because their line is closer to ours makes the beliefs of others no less valid, and deserving of no fewer rights. If there is a single religion on earth that ends with whats in your heart and what you believe I am unaware of it.


Islam does have rules in Sharia that bleed into society, true. There is no refuting this, but so does every religion. If you are going to tell me Christianity hasn't denied "freedoms" to people in this country you are deeply mistaken. Just as you may see the second protecting 30 round mags and "those shoulder thingies" they may see their freedoms differently, marriage being a big one, A HUGE ONE. If you are going to tell me that your high-cap mags are more important to you than your spouse, you may need to keep your wife from reading this thread, and that "right" is denied, because its a "sin." No other reason for this ban is logical, sound, ethical, or holds water from more than a minute. -if you are going to say "sanctity of marriage" hold it for one second, in Sharia law, adultorers (sp.?) can be stoned to death...they may be onto something. That would help keep mom and dad at home, and probably drastically lower the divorce rate in the US! If you are anti-gay marriage "for the children" you better be anti-divorce "for the children," and maybe even pro-stoning "for the children" because dammit they're children!


Children are allowed wine in church, however, fully grown, independent American adults are not allowed other mind altering substances in their religion. Sure one is more sever, but the other is OK for children, No religion bias there...



Freedom of religion does end when it transgress the rights of others, agreed...can you elaborate how this prayer day transgressed your rights? why, for that matter, does polygamy transgress your rights? How about, peyote? Snake charming? Any rights transgressed yet? For that matter, does Sharia, when practiced in a subset of society, and not involving vigilantism (which is illegal, regardless of religious orientation), transgress YOUR rights?

[Ridge]

5 pages of the same argument from a previous thread last week. You talk about islam, then somebody uses the constitution to stand up fir them. All the while never thinking about the fact that Islam is a societal belief structure. Including religion, Sharia law and keeping the church and state as one entity.

Our constitution and bill of rights call for the separation of church and state. Which Islam, if a true practicing Muslim, includes Sharia. To practice Sharia in the United States is to go against our constitution, which means you forfeit the rights it gives. If you choose to live outside our laws, you chose to lose your rights. So by practicing Islam, not just a religion, you forfeit the right for it to be protected for you to do so.

So now your argument to suspend the first amendment is because when it applies to a particular religion, they are exempt because their religion also features a form of government?

[BigMat]

So now your argument to suspend the first amendment is because when it applies to a particular religion, they are exempt because their religion also features a form of government?

worth note CMP_5.56, this may be a trap.


Sorry to blow your cover Ridge

[nynco]

worth note CMP_5.56, this may be a trap.


Sorry to blow your cover Ridge

Its not a trap......... its common sense

[Ridge]

worth note CMP_5.56, this may be a trap.


Sorry to blow your cover Ridge

[Mtn.man]

Now this is what I am trying to understand. Because Mike did not add any details here as to why he has a problem with this event. Is this an event where Americans (Islamic Americans) are coming from all over the US to just pray together. Or are they trying to get the Gov to institute a day of gov sanctioned prayer. If they are trying to get Gov to take part in prayer I have an issue with that. Just like I do with the Christians do that crap too.

1. Who's Mike?
And yes they are trying to get a National Day of Prayer declared for them.
Guess you had to read the article.
Oh and sign up to help them as well it's on their website.

[Graves]

I'm Mike.

[Byte Stryke]

Name me one religion that is. Every religion I can think of involves a moral code, a way of life and a system of rules and judgments...at the least. these outside factors do play into society, the issue is just one of degree. Bang your iHead on the iWall all you want, but you are deluding yourself if you think Christianity is "just" a religion. Christian leaders lobby, plan, boycott, organize and petition, all outside of church hours. Just because their line is closer to ours makes the beliefs of others no less valid, and deserving of no fewer rights. If there is a single religion on earth that ends with whats in your heart and what you believe I am unaware of it.


Islam does have rules in Sharia that bleed into society, true. There is no refuting this, but so does every religion. If you are going to tell me Christianity hasn't denied "freedoms" to people in this country you are deeply mistaken. Just as you may see the second protecting 30 round mags and "those shoulder thingies" they may see their freedoms differently, marriage being a big one, A HUGE ONE. If you are going to tell me that your high-cap mags are more important to you than your spouse, you may need to keep your wife from reading this thread, and that "right" is denied, because its a "sin." No other reason for this ban is logical, sound, ethical, or holds water from more than a minute. -if you are going to say "sanctity of marriage" hold it for one second, in Sharia law, adultorers (sp.?) can be stoned to death...they may be onto something. That would help keep mom and dad at home, and probably drastically lower the divorce rate in the US! If you are anti-gay marriage "for the children" you better be anti-divorce "for the children," and maybe even pro-stoning "for the children" because dammit they're children!


Children are allowed wine in church, however, fully grown, independent American adults are not allowed other mind altering substances in their religion. Sure one is more sever, but the other is OK for children, No religion bias there...



Freedom of religion does end when it transgress the rights of others, agreed...can you elaborate how this prayer day transgressed your rights? why, for that matter, does polygamy transgress your rights? How about, peyote? Snake charming? Any rights transgressed yet? For that matter, does Sharia, when practiced in a subset of society, and not involving vigilantism (which is illegal, regardless of religious orientation), transgress YOUR rights?

So you are saying that their freedom of religion outweighs everyone else's rights to life?
Because as I have said before, its not just a religion with some moral code.
Its is an absolution of law that requires conversion and obedience under penalty of death.
Been there, Done that. Seen the beheadings and hangings in front of the "Justice Ministry"

[tmckay2]

Capitol Hill is public property, if a group wants to hold a prayer there, so what? It's their First Amendment right to do so.

that is correct. i will gladly support the right of those whom i disagree with to practice their constitutionally given rights. the moment we start not supporting their rights is the time that we start losing our rights. you don't have to agree with the premise, but you have to agree with the right.

[tmckay2]

5 pages of the same argument from a previous thread last week. You talk about islam, then somebody uses the constitution to stand up fir them. All the while never thinking about the fact that Islam is a societal belief structure. Including religion, Sharia law and keeping the church and state as one entity.

Our constitution and bill of rights call for the separation of church and state. Which Islam, if a true practicing Muslim, includes Sharia. To practice Sharia in the United States is to go against our constitution, which means you forfeit the rights it gives. If you choose to live outside our laws, you chose to lose your rights. So by practicing Islam, not just a religion, you forfeit the right for it to be protected for you to do so.

this is not true. only certain sects believe in the whole shebang, including sharia law. i know lots of muslims who don't give a rat's ass about it. it is true, however, that if people start to disobey the laws, then that over powers their right to practice their own religion. they can have whatever societal beliefs they want as long as they are within the rules already established. as far as separation of church and state, it really doesn't apply here. there are small groups that want sharia law to be enacted within our government but that will never, ever happen. its a pipe dream of extremists (in this sense i don't mean bombers, just extremists). i am a firm believer in christ, but there are nut jobs on our side too. its true they don't try to blow people up, but they have since the beginning of time tried to put christian beliefs and religion at the heart of the government. many would love it if the government declared christianity the STATE religion. groups still push for it today.

and for the record, separation of church and state was never meant, originally, to mean government entities and officials cannot practice their religion in a government building or setting, it simply meant that the government is not allowed to sanction a state religion and make laws about what religion everyone must practice. it was changed, later, to what people perceive it to be today.