I'll leave this little gem here,

[Ronin13]

FDR knew that the only way to get people to buy more crap was to make sure they had a job. Any job.... Obamas biggest mistake is doing nothing more than Reaganomics and becoming Bushes 3rd term.

Let me put this real simple..... you own a business. You pay taxes. You get a taxbreak that is supposed to in theory mean you will hire more people. But you don't have any customers or even more customers or demand for your products in fact business is slow. Do you take your taxbreak and hire another worker to sit on his ass...... or do you take that money and pocket it? Perhaps you buy a new yacht. That might stimulate demand a little. But perhaps you just save it and do nothing with it. Regardless you would never hire any more people than what you needed for the given demand for your product. You would not stay in business long that way.

Obama is not doing what Reagan or Bush would have done- he's spending more money, claiming that by spending more money and furthering our debt we'll fix our economic woes... wrong. He may start to realize how wrong this plan was, but the reinvestment isn't really working if construction companies are hiring illegal workers and not paying taxes, or the workers send their wages back to Mexico.
In terms of business, the company I work at is family owned, we are comprised of 3 people, we don't have plans to hire anyone new and we have an increasing customer base, and thus if we get a tax break we'll use it to increase our profit by boosting advertising or some other form of growth. We have never hired more people than what we needed given the demand, and guess what, our company has been in business successfully since 1950... so I think we're doing just fine.

[Ranger]

Don't take my word on it:

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...sion-5409.aspx

The UCLA study that many economists site today.

http://www.amazon.com/FDRs-Folly-Roo.../dp/0761501657

While I may not be an economist, Milton Friedman most certainly is and along with many other respectable economists endorse this book.

So, I respect your opinion but cannot agree with you despite how well you might present your case (and I respect a well presented case). I will put my stock behind the Friedmans of the world when it comes to economics before I take the word of someone I don't know.

[nynco]

Now why Keynesian economics or Austrian School (libertarian Hyack people) won't work either. Because of unfettered Free Trade. That blew a hole in our economy and no matter what we do, nothing will get better till be plug that hole. Obama can stimulate the economy all he wants but it won't work. The fundamental basics of the system are broken. Regardless of gov spending or no gov spending, if someone buys a product in the market and that product is made over seas that sends economic activity over seas not back into our economy. We put off that day of reckoning by giving people cheap loans. I made it all seem too good to be true and it was.

Manufacturing is the basis of all wealth creation. If you build nothing then you are just feeding off the left overs of that previous manufacture wealth creation.

Why is the middle class disappearing? Because we now have to compete with people who live in mudhuts. So until you yourself are willing to live in a mudhut, you can never compete with his cost of living. America is sliding to that equilibrium point.

[hollohas]

FDR knew that the only way to get people to buy more crap was to make sure they had a job. Any job.... Obamas biggest mistake is doing nothing more than Reaganomics and becoming Bushes 3rd term.

Let me put this real simple..... you own a business. You pay taxes. You get a taxbreak that is supposed to in theory mean you will hire more people. But you don't have any customers or even more customers or demand for your products in fact business is slow. Do you take your taxbreak and hire another worker to sit on his ass...... or do you take that money and pocket it? Perhaps you buy a new yacht. That might stimulate demand a little. But perhaps you just save it and do nothing with it. Regardless you would never hire any more people than what you needed for the given demand for your product. You would not stay in business long that way.

^This is a bit of a "chicken or the egg" example. The owner can't create a job because he has no customers, he has no customers because they don't have jobs, they don't have jobs because owners can't hire...

So who can hire? Well, the government can! But how you ask?

Decreasing taxes didn't help so maybe increasing them will... Let's see...increased taxes will in theory mean Uncle Sam can create jobs. More jobs mean more people that can buy crap at the owner's shop. How does Uncle Sam make those jobs? Extra tax income in theory means Uncle Sam can now buy 100 new toilets for $50/each for the phase 1 retrofit of government buildings. Requiring hiring 10 new guys to install them and requiring the manufacture hire 5 new employees to make them because the demand is now over their supply capability. Good theory, there are your jobs. But what really happens? Instead Uncle Sam paid $500/each for 10 new toilets and neither the manufacture nor Plumbers.gov needed to hire anyone.

Giving government more money is not the answer. They have never proved to use it wisely.

A business owner buying a yacht is a lot more simulating demand than a $500 government toilet or studying the effects of cow farts on the ozone. I'm not saying we should give tax breaks so business owners can buy boats but I don't think giving that money to Uncle Sam is a great idea either.

Everyone should pay the same percentage income tax whether they make $10/year or $10 billion, no exceptions. What they do with the rest is their business. But no double taxing either...no taxing your savings, girfts, your death...

[ronaldrwl]

FDR turned a recession into the Great Depression with his ridicules ideas of raising prices on goods and shorting money supply...... He was an fiscal idiot. But not a bad Commander and Chief.

[Jumpstart]

March 2006

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America ’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure.... It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America ’s debt limit.”

-Sen. Barack Obama,D-Ill.

[sniper7]

the data about unemployment explains it all. If obama wanted to do the right thing right now he would take the massive cuts the true fiscal conservatives are proposing and stop this downward spiral.

[nynco]

the data about unemployment explains it all. If obama wanted to do the right thing right now he would take the massive cuts the true fiscal conservatives are proposing and stop this downward spiral.

How in the hell would massive cuts fix anything? If anything it would tank the economy over night. Its a great bumper sticker but a horrible idea in reality. You want to make massive cuts...... sure, cut all the insane corporate welfare. Why the hell did GE pay NO taxes? Cutting services that help the poor and the middle class just kill Demand in the economy. Without demand for products there is no need for your job or any business that employs you.

[flan7211]

How in the hell would massive cuts fix anything? If anything it would tank the economy over night. Its a great bumper sticker but a horrible idea in reality. You want to make massive cuts...... sure, cut all the insane corporate welfare. Why the hell did GE pay NO taxes? Cutting services that help the poor and the middle class just kill Demand in the economy. Without demand for products there is no need for your job or any business that employs you.

Let us make this point as well, taxes alone can't fix the crisis either. Only producing and exporting with the increase in revenue will really fix this. We have a table and we're going to set it. Republicans say cut, democrats say tax. Cutting could hurt the market as most major corporations are too dependent on the tit of government. Taxing could stalwart private spending and saving. If we don't use proper taxation, penalties, and tariffs to reindustrialize it is useless to continue this debate. Either party's plan is a short term fix for a long term problem.

[nynco]

Let us make this point as well, taxes alone can't fix the crisis either. Only producing and exporting with the increase in revenue will really fix this. We have a table and we're going to set it. Republicans say cut, democrats say tax. Cutting could hurt the market as most major corporations are too dependent on the tit of government. Taxing could stalwart private spending and saving. If we don't use proper taxation, penalties, and tariffs to reindustrialize it is useless to continue this debate. Either party's plan is a short term fix for a long term problem.

I agree on the short term fix for a long term mess.

But to drive home my point. Taxes have never been lower in the last 70 years. at one time corporations paid over 25% (1950/60s) of the tax burden Today its about 8%. At one time the top tax rate was 90% for those who made over 2 million a year in todays dollars (1950/60s) today its less than 35%. But even that is a joke because most of the uber earners don't work and get taxed on wages. They live on dividends.... and if they are older than one year, they pay 15%. So a Dr who saves lives pays over 35% for his earnings and a parasite hedge fund douche pays only 15% on his billion dollar vampire bite from our economy.

Something is horribly broken and like hell we need to cut taxes for upper classes anymore. The US economy grew by leaps and bounds in the 1950/60s with all those taxes. Today it is vastly lower and our budget short fall is insane.

As for welfare people.......... well maybe we should listen to FDR and bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps or other forms of gov work programs. If we are going to pay them welfare, make them earn it and build this nation something worth while.