I'll leave this little gem here,

[tmleadr03]

At the time of the fall of Rome. All taxes had been shifted to the middle class (like today) the middle class was driven into debt slavery (like today) and the upper classes felt so deserving that they never served their nation in things like the military (like today) and then Rome fractured along political fault lines.

Rome did not end in 400AD. Half of it did.

Prior to that a political split happened. The small gov libertarians took over the Western Roman empire and the bigger gov public good type people took over the Eastern half.

The Western half ended around 400AD

The Eastern half lasted till 1400AD

Chew on that...

[nynco]

The conservative mime that 50% of America pays no taxes is a lie. That number deals with income tax alone. But regardless of income taxes at all pay levels FICA and other forms of payroll tax are always payed. Those revenues make up 41% of all taken by the federal gov.

Now those taxes only effect workers. Those taxes for the most part are only paid on the first 200K. After that, Soc tax is not taken out. So that tax falls disproportionately on the middle class.

Long term cap gains. Middle class people don't earn their money that way. They work for a living. Top tax rate on any investment held for 1 year. 15%... no other tax collected.

Work a job and you are subject to far more. Once again the middle class pays more of that burden per percentage of earning.


Now how do the conservative propagandists get the 50%. They only look at the income tax alone. Which yes the rich pay far more of that. Why, because we keep on cutting the wages of the middle class to the point where they are poor now.

[Ranger]

Nynco, you may be the nicest guy in the world but for God's sake would you STOP proselytizing every time your fingers touch the keys? The upper class is so deserving that they never serve their nation (like today)? What a steaming tub of horse crap this is. My family is what you would consider upper class and my father served in combat, my brother served in combat and I served in combat. Now, fast forward and I own several businesses and am upper class and would give up everything I own right this moment if my country needed me again.

So, while I respect your [unique] view on history and it's [sometimes] accurate representation, the textbook talking points about the rich being over-privileged and the poor working man being stepped on is over the top. The top 50% of wage earners pay the VAST majority of taxes in this country. I know you claim to be a libertarian but these "middle class and poor are slaves to the rich" crap is right from the democrat playbook.

There is a reason I do not socialize with idiot libtards, they have a very myopic view of the issues based on their libtard heroes and the constant stream of puke coming from their mouths infuriates me to no end. I'm no Fox News junky here, I take the time to educate myself on both sides of the fence because, frankly, both sides are f'ed beyond belief and hardly a word that comes out bears any truth these days.

The downfall of the Roman empire was based on SO many things, not the least of which was the entitlements to the people and the "middle class" was a large part of that. Who pays for entitlements do you think - the handout fairy? And who tend to get the handouts? The rich? I think not! I don't know any rich guys on welfare right now...

Argggggh. Stepping away now because this is annoying me!

[tmleadr03]

The conservative mime that 50% of America pays no taxes is a lie. That number deals with income tax alone. But regardless of income taxes at all pay levels FICA and other forms of payroll tax are always payed. Those revenues make up 41% of all taken by the federal gov.

Now those taxes only effect workers. Those taxes for the most part are only paid on the first 200K. After that, Soc tax is not taken out. So that tax falls disproportionately on the middle class.

Long term cap gains. Middle class people don't earn their money that way. They work for a living. Top tax rate on any investment held for 1 year. 15%... no other tax collected.

Work a job and you are subject to far more. Once again the middle class pays more of that burden per percentage of earning.


Now how do the conservative propagandists get the 50%. They only look at the income tax alone. Which yes the rich pay far more of that. Why, because we keep on cutting the wages of the middle class to the point where they are poor now.

And 3/5ths of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[Ranger]

Oh and your "conservative propagandist" BS about how conservatives just make up that 50% don't pay taxes, well just turn to your own libtard heroes in the press and be sure to let them know that they are spewing conservative propaganda. I know, I know, the evil Bush administration probably made them do it (that and the terrible Reaganomics probably caused it but our hero FDR would have saved the day, BLA BLA BLA):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36226444...al-income-tax/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly...67323.html?x=0

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/t...axes/index.htm

And who doesn't believe this. My, my, it's Media Matters - aren't THEY just the pinnacle of fairness? Lord, man, get over yourself.

[nynco]

Oh and your "conservative propagandist" BS about how conservatives just make up that 50% don't pay taxes, well just turn to your own libtard heroes in the press and be sure to let them know that they are spewing conservative propaganda. I know, I know, the evil Bush administration probably made them do it (that and the terrible Reaganomics probably caused it but our hero FDR would have saved the day, BLA BLA BLA):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36226444...al-income-tax/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly...67323.html?x=0

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/t...axes/index.htm

And who doesn't believe this. My, my, it's Media Matters - aren't THEY just the pinnacle of fairness? Lord, man, get over yourself.

I think you have a reading comprehension problem. Yes 50% of America pays no taxes........ only if you look at income tax rates alone. Learn to think past the BS.

You want to whine about me calling it conservative propaganda......... does it hurt your feelings. Well stop calling me or them libtards. You can dish it, but can't seem to take it.

[nynco]

Nynco, you may be the nicest guy in the world but for God's sake would you STOP proselytizing every time your fingers touch the keys? The upper class is so deserving that they never serve their nation (like today)? What a steaming tub of horse crap this is. My family is what you would consider upper class and my father served in combat, my brother served in combat and I served in combat. Now, fast forward and I own several businesses and am upper class and would give up everything I own right this moment if my country needed me again.

So, while I respect your [unique] view on history and it's [sometimes] accurate representation, the textbook talking points about the rich being over-privileged and the poor working man being stepped on is over the top. The top 50% of wage earners pay the VAST majority of taxes in this country. I know you claim to be a libertarian but these "middle class and poor are slaves to the rich" crap is right from the democrat playbook.

There is a reason I do not socialize with idiot libtards, they have a very myopic view of the issues based on their libtard heroes and the constant stream of puke coming from their mouths infuriates me to no end. I'm no Fox News junky here, I take the time to educate myself on both sides of the fence because, frankly, both sides are f'ed beyond belief and hardly a word that comes out bears any truth these days.

The downfall of the Roman empire was based on SO many things, not the least of which was the entitlements to the people and the "middle class" was a large part of that. Who pays for entitlements do you think - the handout fairy? And who tend to get the handouts? The rich? I think not! I don't know any rich guys on welfare right now...

Argggggh. Stepping away now because this is annoying me!

Stop proselytizing....... well when I see someone post something that I think is false. I will tell them why and explain why. Or would you rather I just call you a conservatard like people call me a libtard and never explain why?

Also I never said I was a libertarian. I don't fall in any category well. I believe in libertarian, conservative, progressive and liberal ideals. Depends on the issue and I wish more people would stop being lazy and think things that way too. Its far easier to call your self one of the above and just jump on the band wagon.

As to me taking to time to educate myself on the issues. I could write a paper on most all topics from both view points. Does not mean I know everything. Heck I learn something new every day and I welcome the education. Just because I don't agree with you all the time does not mean I'm not educated on the issues. Perhaps if you were humble you would think your own view of liberals being that way could go both ways. Just sayin...


As I said before the top 50% only pay the vast majority if you look at only one narrow slice of the pie. Income taxes..... But once you look at wealth earned per percentages of society and what their total tax burden is, that is shown to be false....... by a long shot.

Let me explain that in a real simple way. 99 people in a room earn 50K a year each. Bill Gates walks into the room. We could tax the 99 people in the room at 100% of all earnings and Bill gates still pays more taxes than them. Thats why our system looks so fucked to you. Your paying attention to the wrong problem.

[Ranger]

Well stop calling me or them libtards. You can dish it, but can't seem to take it.

Call me whatever you want, I don't give a crap. I don't take offense to the conservative propaganda statement. So, yes, dish it out all you want - it's no skin off my back.

As for calling you a libtard, well if the shoe fits then wear it. Perhaps liber-tard is better and if you want to call me a conservatard then awesome. My skin's thick.

I'm not trying to convince YOU of anything, but I'm not going to stand idle while you spew your take on things as if they are gospel and point out how uneducated or ill informed the rest of us are without making sure the other side of the coin is voiced. You're not changing your mind and I'm not changing mine either unless someone can actual prove I'm wrong.

We'll agree to disagree. Frankly I have better things to do with my time then go back and forth with you on a topic we'll never agree upon. We are both very passionate about our political beliefs, we'll leave it at that and know we are going to butt heads every time one or the other of us voices those beliefs.

[nynco]

I change my mind all the time.... I really do but I don't do that unless someone takes the time to explain something in a way that makes sense and proves me wrong in the end. Just saying I am wrong is not the answer.

So far I have laid out my proof. You just said I was wrong. How am I wrong? I am more than willing to learn and change position. Are you?

[tmleadr03]

So far as I can see you have done nothing but spew talking points and revisionist history of the progressives. I have seen no proof as of yet. As such there really is not much to comment on. More laugh at then anything.