Political Rant Thread

[nynco]

nynco- maybe you've already done this and I just haven't seen it- just what is "liberal economics" in your view? You don't have to write a dissertation, keep it simple for us righties!

Sneakerd.... I am not going to ignore this or you on this. I am going to start a new thread for it. I just want to think it through on how to present it. Mainly to make it easy to understand and to try and back up what I write and not make it so long.

I will say, I don't believe in what you guys think is Liberal economics. So I will draw from both sides a little and try to put forth what I think is correct.

[sneakerd]

No-no -no. I want to know what YOU believe, not what you think the right definition is. Not trying to be nasty here. For all I know, I might agree with you on a number of things- but I don't even think your definition of liberal economics will encompass what seemingly is being shoved down our throats- at least up until the last election!

[nynco]

No-no -no. I want to know what YOU believe, not what you think the right definition is. Not trying to be nasty here. For all I know, I might agree with you on a number of things- but I don't even think your definition of liberal economics will encompass what seemingly is being shoved down our throats- at least up until the last election!

I'll do my best to deal with both. Promise.... I just also want to show where there is common ground.

[Colorado Luckydog]

I'm a conservitive and I'll leave it at that. I know better than to try to argue with the left, it's pointless. They must be defeated, no matter what it takes. They won't believe they are wrong until thay run this country all the way into the ground and then they will blame the right for their stupidity.

How the hell can you try to convince someone what is right and wrong when they believe it's okay for men to be blowing each other. Not that they are gay themselves but it's okay if everyone else is. Thar's just a small point in the scheme of things but it's a very real and valid point. Their views about life and what makes life good are just flat wrong. They must be defeated at the polls. If that doesn't work, then Lord help us. At that point there will be good men that will do what is needed, I'm sure.

[Ranger]

I'll do my best to deal with both. Promise.... I just also want to show where there is common ground.

I would like to see the common ground. Will it be Wiki, NPR or Money Matters? I'm all for fairness, but if you cite just simply those who support your theory without being able to reasonably debunk your opponent then you serve to do nothing more than worsen your position with the opposition. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and look forward to seeing your common ground.

[nynco]

Colorado lucky dog seems like he lives in a world of fear.

What two guys do between two consenting adults is of no care to me. Neither should it be a care between consenting men and women either. If you want to love Jesus... then spend your time better by helping the poor and the sick. Hating gays is neither of those.

[nynco]

I would like to see the common ground. Will it be Wiki, NPR or Money Matters? I'm all for fairness, but if you cite just simply those who support your theory without being able to reasonably debunk your opponent then you serve to do nothing more than worsen your position with the opposition. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and look forward to seeing your common ground.

Ranger how do you prove point if you don't cite things that agree with your point? Its illogical to think otherwise.

[Ranger]

How the hell can you try to convince someone what is right and wrong when they believe it's okay for men to be blowing each other.

I'm pretty far right myself and have no love of this type of thing but how a guy whets his pecker, as it were, isn't my business. I'm not in favor of being forced to recognize it as normal or to grant special privileges because of it, but if they want to burn in hell for all of eternity then God gave them the free will to do so. Not that I'm a bible thumper, but I am a believer.

[Ranger]

Ranger how do you prove point if you don't cite things that agree with your point? Its illogical to think otherwise.

You want to convince me? You need to cite sources that are not so far left that it's not funny - such as you have done already. Rather, find an unbiased view who clearly takes the right side and the left side to show their shortcomings. I didn't ask you to cite things that are contrary to your point, that IS ridiculous, but don't cite things that are obviously biased in their opinion. I will NOT cite to you any sources from Fox, Rush or any other right wing pundits, because that only serves to show you that I believe what they do, rather I'll point to actual facts and figures by an unbiased party if I want to convince you. Hell, I'll even site sources from YOUR side of the fence, but not my own (unless I can also cite separate sources that back it up).

[flan7211]

How about in this thread we leave out all the platitudes and bravado? Conservative/Liberal seems like a better home for it.

Keynesian economics is a failure. It could work in theory, as could any economic model work, if the conditions were perfect and you started at a zero sum. For example every economist you will ever meet will start a conversation saying "well all things being equal" which they never are, but I digress. Keynes can't work because a large factor is the continual growth of industry via government stimulus. If industry is not outputting at an equal or greater rate than stimulus than the game ends with an all around loss. Obamya today is continuing a bastardization of Chicago school and Keynes. His major problem is that we are not exporting and producing enough wealth to keep pace and out grow stimulus. Therefore if he continues regulation, taxes, and "free trade" that is lop sided towards our opponents he will further stifle exports and production causing a Keynes melt down.

Chicago school (Reagan) economics is a failure. The free market was used as a wild fire to grow financial and investing markets. Which it did. The neo-liberals (Reagan,Thatcher,Friedman) began an experiment in the early 80's with the free market. The experiment was extremely effective at first bringing in large amounts of market build up and revenue for the state. But a wild fire eventually burns itself out. Industry looks at it's numbers and realizes that the cost to business here is more expensive than say china or india. They pick up and leave, build a product somewhere else than sell that product in the US. We are exporting our dollars and not our products. We get less taxes from US companies because they flee our shores. This debt crisis is a fallacy. Tax or cut good luck to either. Deficits can't be fixed by cuts alone. The real problem for Repubs is that we are attempting to fix a Keynesian problem with a Chicago answer, while the D's are doing vice versa.

The only real answer isn't in theory at all but the tried and true method that the US was built on.Protection of our market against the rest of the world. We must create either incentive or penalty towards businesses that leave. When we restrengthen our own line of defense and come home revenues will increase naturally. There are without a doubt areas to cut spending but until we have a long term solution neither argument does much other than hold the line of anger until the next election.