Apropros the recent mood of the board

[Ronin13]

Wow, where do you run in to people like that? Are you attending a lot of gay pride parades? Watching non-stop LOGO on TV?

I like the quote by Voltaire, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

H.

I don't attend any gay pride parades, but I've heard gay men say things like that. Such as "I'm a flaming homo!" or "Dude, I'm a gay man, I'm pretty sure if I make contact with a vagina I break out in hives." I just respond with "you're entitled to your opinion."
And the Voltaire quote is the cornerstone of my belief in the 1st A! Can't put it any better than that.

[two shoes]

You may want to rethink that entire libertarian leaning part. For some one who is claiming to be a libertarian you sure are taking a conservative stand on a lot of issues there. The entire premise of being a libertarian is that the government doesn't infringe on your life at all. So that would mean you are ok with gays, drug use (I bet you smoke and drink) and abortions.

I think you need to take a step back and look at yourself. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

I have been struggling with the apparent conflict within. Conservative vs. Libertarian...

I follow the Christian faith but feel the gov't should be the hell out of peoples lives. I am personally against abortion, but the gov't should't be involved to pay for or hinder this. The Doctors and women who do this will answer for their actions, in my mind. This has been vetted in our courts. Gays, even gay marriage... I do not like the idea or condone the practice, but damn, if they are willing to stand up for their pursuit of happiness, then so be it. I knew when I went into the military that I would be defending our Flag and defend someone's right to burn it. Hard pill to take, but I wouldn't want it any other way.

I used to be hardcore right wing and supported everything that went with it... but now think that religion should be a very personal thing and not dictated to the masses. I would hope that someone would see something in me to ask about my beliefs and then be able share with them.

I am for Liberty. I am for the rights outlined for us in the Constitution, for all men and women and men that act like women and visa versa. Although my religious beliefs guide my own actions I will not impose them upon others.

Am I the only one that is working through this?

[nynco]

I agree with you two shoes.... to give you perspective. I cheered when Newt took the house in 1994.

[Ronin13]

I have been struggling with the apparent conflict within. Conservative vs. Libertarian...

I follow the Christian faith but feel the gov't should be the hell out of peoples lives. I am personally against abortion, but the gov't should't be involved to pay for or hinder this. The Doctors and women who do this will answer for their actions, in my mind. This has been vetted in our courts. Gays, even gay marriage... I do not like the idea or condone the practice, but damn, if they are willing to stand up for their pursuit of happiness, then so be it. I knew when I went into the military that I would be defending our Flag and defend someone's right to burn it. Hard pill to take, but I wouldn't want it any other way.

I used to be hardcore right wing and supported everything that went with it... but now think that religion should be a very personal thing and not dictated to the masses. I would hope that someone would see something in me to ask about my beliefs and then be able share with them.

I am for Liberty. I am for the rights outlined for us in the Constitution, for all men and women and men that act like women and visa versa. Although my religious beliefs guide my own actions I will not impose them upon others.

Am I the only one that is working through this?

You're not alone, and I see things the exact same way. What you do with your partner (be they man, woman, a mix of the two, whatever) is your business, no one should have a right to come between a consensual adult relationship. What God you worship is your own business, no one has any right to infringe upon that (unless your God dictates you infringe upon others). I ask to all those who are so strongly opposed to gay marriage "does it effect you?" If two men get married what does it do to you? Do you suddenly become less important? Do you all of a sudden become less of a man? No, it's just another couple legitimizing their relationship before the state. So who cares! I personally don't agree with it, but it's not my place to say what they can and cannot do. I hate to quote a rap song but Jay-Z put it best: "What you eat doesn't make me shit."

[TS12000]

You hit the nail on the head twoshoes, CHOICE is the key here. Your pastor starts doing gay marriages? Maybe you choose a new church, it's not really hard at all to surround yourself with the people and things that make you happy and comfortable and to push away the things you don't want around you. We are far too law happy in this country, stay outta my life and I'll be more than happy to stay out of yours.


And Hoosier, I enjoy your commentary it helps bring this mob down off it's high horse from time to time (self included) .

[Ranger]

I'm not opposed to civil unions but I am opposed to calling it marriage. How does it affect me? To me it de-legitimizes the term marriage. It's splitting hairs perhaps, but a civil union being the same as marriage, OK, but since the term was first conceived it was a union between man and woman. I don't want to wake up tomorrow and find out that heterosexual also applies to gays as well, so why have to do that with marriage? I don't feel I need to qualify myself if I say "I'm married....to a woman". It's a new thing, gay "marriage", give it a new name.

[nynco]

If a civil union carried the same weight in law as a marriage does, then I would be for civil unions. In my opinion all people should have a civil union by the state as part of your marriage license and then go to a church if you want to get married. This is how Europe keeps religion and state separate on this issue.

I think one way to solve this is to make a law that says civil unions are viewed the same and subjected to all the same laws and protections as marriage.

I have tried to tell gays they were going about it the wrong way. But what can I do? I think part of the problem is how the media and our politicians frame the debate. So gays are forced into attacking it based on making marriage the same rather than civil unions the same as marriage.

[hollohas]

In my opinion all people should have a civil union by the state as part of your marriage license and then go to a church if you want to get married.

I agree with you here nynco. Marriage is traditionally a religious thing and the government should stay out of it.

The government should only be involved in civil unions. If you want the government benefits, get a civil union. If you want to be religious, get married at a church. Want benefits and religion, do both.

[Ranger]

If a civil union carried the same weight in law as a marriage does, then I would be for civil unions. In my opinion all people should have a civil union by the state as part of your marriage license and then go to a church if you want to get married.

Every once in a while we find common ground. Now.....just hold on there fella......stop........no........FDR what?............Reagan did what.......

[nynco]

Every once in a while we find common ground. Now.....just hold on there fella......stop........no........FDR what?............Reagan did what.......

And those crazy socialist and Europe do it right.... lol I meant it more as a joke. But that is where I got the idea of that from. A friend of mine got married in Germany so I heard about the differences.

I'll try to be less surly. I am listening to you ranger and learning too.