ABC Story on CCW

[Great-Kazoo]

I did contract work training the Navy VBSS teams and they got a pretty decent amount of time with a 9mm. I have served with or trained every branch of service except the Air Force and I really think you don't know WTF your talking about. When I was in we shot 9mm at the rage two times a month and put thousands of rounds down range every time. Not to mention week long shooting schools and time out in the field.

My family is in every branch of service except the Navy today and speaking to them we all shoot pistol when at the range.

When people in CO can get a CCW without ever shooting a gun or having to qualify is absurd to say that military and police can't shoot compared to the average civilian. Just sounds absolutely ridiculous to compare the two. People that have seen combat and are in the line of duty and know about cover/concealment, evacuation plans, your simplest tac pro, and fire arms safety rules and compare them to the people in the video that play third person shooter games and shoot an air soft gun at soda cans is just not a fair assessment. You take any average Joe off the street or someone that served this country and put them at the range or in shoot/no shoot scenarios and my money will always be on the person that has HAD training. Even if they aren't a rec shooter they have had the training and experience and IMHO will react better in a real life situation that requires them to upholster a firearm and make a decision on what to do next.

the army started doing real scenario training in 08 since then they have upped the ante training wise.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/0...nship_050408w/

the VBSS team is a boarding team, among other things, requiring more training than the average sailor. you have your experience and i have mine. Does you "family" actively carry side arms on duty and if so are the SP, MP, AP or regular .mil? Obviously we disagree on .mil shooters, however i did not see you challenge the LE guys. Again, the Average .mil guy / gal is not on range as much as myself or others i know, some maybe across theboard doubt it.

[Jai]

We def disagree. I am not talking about the majority of shooters off a shooting forum when I say civilians. I am sure if the video was reenacted using someone who "teaches a CCW" course they would also do way better then the video game kids.

I was just arguing againts your statement "i have given CCW classes to prior mil and to say their level of shooting is better than civilians is pathetic, in general. Same goes for active LE"

Yes, maybe your right if you want to compare someone who is a cook on a DDG . When I think average mil shooter I think infantry, MP, LE, ect. (yes, we all served in a combat arms or LE function, your right)

Sorry but no CCW course in the world and no amount of range time shooting paper targets will compare to when that first round goes off in real life. I am sure you have read far more studies then I have since you instruct a CCW course, about shots hitting the ground 3 feet in front of an officer trying to return fire. That very first time the shit hits the fan all that classroom experience goes out the window.

Its a totally different scenario. That's all I am arguing here is that military personnel and LE are more prepared to deal with life threatening deadly force scenarios then the kids in the video, and to me it seemed very one sided to base off these kids; I would like to see how the scenario would play out if the video wasn't so stacked against the CCW holder in the video. They come in gunning for him every freaking time because its the cop playing the bad guy!