Dave Ramsey on Debt

[UberTong]

My wife and I took the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace course this year and it was great. I get the little newsletter now and typically I just delete it, but I liked the stat that came in the one today, interesting to view this way. I'm sure it will cause some kind of debate, go at it.

"If the US Government was a family, they would be making $58,000 a year, they spend $75,000 a year, & are $327,000 in credit card debt. They are currently proposing BIG spending cuts to reduce their spending to $72,000 a year. These are the actual proportions of the federal budget & debt, reduced to a level that we can understand." - Dave Ramsey

[nynco]

So raise taxes......... back to 1960s levels

[UberTong]

My gut told me you'd be the first one in here. Good morning nynco

[Ranger]

So raise taxes......... back to 1960s levels

Taxes, while lower than 1960's rates, are far higher revenue at lower levels. This has been shown time and time again that raising taxes doesn't fix the problem. At the heart of the problem is cutting spending. Using the family analogy again, if you are making $100K a year you are likely to be living on $100K a year, if you get a raise you might buy a bigger house or a better car. The moral being that giving the government more money is not the answer, when you are spiraling out of control with your debt you need to cut your expenses because YOU, as a person, just can't make more money, the government can - and does - and lives way beyond it's means.

[nynco]

time and time again......... really?

Because all the data shows that we had were paying off our debt during the 60s and our debt exploded during the time of lower taxes. As to the small uptick in revenue. Well that is because we borrowed to cover our costs. This thread is about our debt problem. So unless you figure out a way to cut taxes and spending and show how we can do that well......... that won't happen.

Voodoo economics failed........ look at our debt.

[Inconel710]

time and time again......... really?

Because all the data shows that we had were paying off our debt during the 60s and our debt exploded during the time of lower taxes. As to the small uptick in revenue. Well that is because we borrowed to cover our costs. This thread is about our debt problem. So unless you figure out a way to cut taxes and spending and show how we can do that well......... that won't happen.

Voodoo economics failed........ look at our debt.

Again you have failed to look at real numbers and how people behave with their money in the real world. Here's the graph of Tax Revenue as a Percetage of GDP again. Even when the marginal tax rate topped out over 50%, the government never captured more than 20% or GDP. Also notice how revenue went UP after lowering taxes in 1986 and up again after lowering taxes in 2003! That's not voodoo, those are numbers you can't argue with.

The debt has exploded because of the failed belief in Keynesian economics and government getting too big. There's real "voodoo" economics!

[Ranger]

Again you have failed to look at real numbers and how people behave with their money in the real world. Here's the graph of Tax Revenue as a Percetage of GDP again. Even when the marginal tax rate topped out over 50%, the government never captured more than 20% or GDP. Also notice how revenue went UP after lowering taxes in 1986 and up again after lowering taxes in 2003! That's not voodoo, those are numbers you can't argue with.

The debt has exploded because of the failed belief in Keynesian economics and government getting too big. There's real "voodoo" economics!

You are talking to a brick wall my friend. He'll fire back with facts and figures from the Daily News or something. Whatever.

[nynco]

Again you have failed to look at real numbers and how people behave with their money in the real world. Here's the graph of Tax Revenue as a Percetage of GDP again. Even when the marginal tax rate topped out over 50%, the government never captured more than 20% or GDP. Also notice how revenue went UP after lowering taxes in 1986 and up again after lowering taxes in 2003! That's not voodoo, those are numbers you can't argue with.

The debt has exploded because of the failed belief in Keynesian economics and government getting too big. There's real "voodoo" economics!

So why did our Debt explode under Reagan?

[CrufflerSteve]

Again you have failed to look at real numbers and how people behave with their money in the real world. Here's the graph of Tax Revenue as a Percetage of GDP again. Even when the marginal tax rate topped out over 50%, the government never captured more than 20% or GDP. Also notice how revenue went UP after lowering taxes in 1986 and up again after lowering taxes in 2003! That's not voodoo, those are numbers you can't argue with.

The debt has exploded because of the failed belief in Keynesian economics and government getting too big. There's real "voodoo" economics!

That model worked well in times of some real growth and confidence. A major failing al most all models is a belief in equilibrium, that things go naturally to optimal levels. Our current economic state is off the charts into the squirrelly zone. If we cut taxes I doubt if revenue will increase at all. In normal times people spend it and businesses create jobs. Now everybody will just sit on the money so no new activiity. All these models are voodoo when it comes to explaining the extremes.

nynco, I agree with your more tham most but I don't think I share your faith that more revenue now would be anything more than good money after bad. I do share many members lack of faith in the government actually living within limits without some real constraints keeping it under control. Just one little earmark here, one little emergency allocation and its back to business as usual.

Steve

[sniper7]

time and time again......... really?

Because all the data shows that we had were paying off our debt during the 60s and our debt exploded during the time of lower taxes. As to the small uptick in revenue. Well that is because we borrowed to cover our costs. This thread is about our debt problem. So unless you figure out a way to cut taxes and spending and show how we can do that well......... that won't happen.

Voodoo economics failed........ look at our debt.

No a .gov spending what money it has coming in, not a metric shit ton more. You fail.