"I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong."

[Irving]

"I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong."

Agree or disagree? 100% agree? 100% disagree? Some where in between?

No right or wrong answers, just curious about the discussion.

Quote is from Frederick Douglass by the way.

[mcantar18c]

Just depends on your perspective.
Sometimes bad things need to be done for good reasons, and sometimes good things are done for bad reasons. The question is, are you more interested in the ends or the means?

[Irving]

I'm not sure if that really fits the scope of the quote mcantar.

I was asking more along the lines of the big picture.

If an illegal alien approached you and asked for your help to stop three guys raping his illegal wife in an alley; would you or wouldn't you?

**I only used an illegal because I don't know enough about you to know who you would not normally team up with. I didn't want this to necessarily be political or otherwise like the rest of the topics that the board seems to constantly rehash over and over. I couldn't really come up with a better example to explain how I interpreted the quote at this time.**

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

I would say I agree. I see the argument about perspective - but in my eyes, if I was attempting to do something good and just then I would work with my sworn enemy to accomplish it. By the same token, if I thought it was towards an evil end I think I would walk away from my own blood if they refused to listen to reason. This is all theoretically, of course.

[SA Friday]

I would say I agree. I see the argument about perspective - but in my eyes, if I was attempting to do something good and just then I would work with my sworn enemy to accomplish it. By the same token, if I thought it was towards an evil end I think I would walk away from my own blood if they refused to listen to reason. This is all theoretically, of course.

I think you're right about this being about perspective, but the perspective of something good and something evil is where the quote becomes flawed. The perspective of rightousness and evil is based on the individual. It's entirely possible for two sides to both see their cause as the righteous cause and yet terminally conflict with each other. As a third party at that point, the third individuals judgement based on their background, can only be weight as the individuals and not a universal truth.

Rarely does history show clear black and white decisions. When you chose a side, you make your bed. Only the closed minded cannot see their opposition's perspective.

[Sharpienads]

I originally thought what Mcantar thought. Do the ends justify the means?

"I would unite with anybody to do right..."

Would you stand shoulder to shoulder with somebody just because at that moment they were doing the right thing, regardless of past offenses or future intentions? To use a very simple example, would you pose for a photo op with Mao at a fundraiser to raise money to find loving homes for cute little puppies? No matter how legit that specific fundraiser might be, I couldn't do it.

On the other hand, as in your example Irving, how could you not help a woman who was being raped, regardless of legal status? I couldn't live with myself if I was in a position to possibly stop a horrible crime like this and did nothing.


I guess in the end i would have to say "It depends". But generally, yes, I agree with this statement.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm not sure if that really fits the scope of the quote mcantar.

I was asking more along the lines of the big picture.

If an illegal alien approached you and asked for your help to stop three guys raping his illegal wife in an alley; would you or wouldn't you?

**I only used an illegal because I don't know enough about you to know who you would not normally team up with. I didn't want this to necessarily be political or otherwise like the rest of the topics that the board seems to constantly rehash over and over. I couldn't really come up with a better example to explain how I interpreted the quote at this time.**

What does illegal have to do with stopping a woman from being raped? I hear a woman screaming for help, the last thing on my agenda at that time is, are they a citizen of the US.
As a human being i could not live with myself knowing i ignored a cry for help, could you?

[cstone]

So really the issue is how any one of us would define "right" and "wrong."

Isn't that a question of morality?

Regardless of what the thing is, if you or I personally believe that something is "right" then we would do it regardless of how we felt about the people who were helping us and vice versa. I can normally justify working to do good with people I don't like or disagree with using a quote from Lincoln: "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Lincoln derived this concept and the quote from the Bible.

Who defines "right" and "wrong" and is there an ultimate authority for truth? We each have to struggle with that one and probably more often each day than we realize.

If Hitler, Satan, and Mao were feeding homeless, starving, kittens, I would help them. If for no other reason, I would want to find out what they were planning to do with the kittens knowing that it probably wasn't going to be good.

[Elhuero]

Yeah, that's the problem.

The right for one is the wrong for another.

Isaiah 5:20

2 Timothy 3:1-7

Forgive the religiousness but it really fits.

[Irving]

What does illegal have to do with stopping a woman from being raped? I hear a woman screaming for help, the last thing on my agenda at that time is, are they a citizen of the US.
As a human being i could not live with myself knowing i ignored a cry for help, could you?

That question was directed a mcantar, because I've asked him a similar question before about defending the life of an illegal, and he said that if he knew for sure that the person was illegal, he wouldn't do anything to assist them.



I'm not sure why people insist on breaking this down to the perception of good or evil. In my opinion, that doesn't have anything to do with the quote. It is easiest for me to decide, when taken at face value. "I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong."

Would you help your brother rob a bank?