Parents!!! Bug Out, Hold up?

[tmckay2]

Yup, bug in. No point in leaving only to get bogged down with everyone else who is leaving.

Imagine what the freeways would be like...total chaos.

you of course don't use the freeways. everyone knows that much. also the number of people leaving early on would be nil. hardly anyone is prepared to survive anywhere else and they would all make the mistake of sticking around too long to try to wait it out, only to realize they now can't leave. if you left fairly early youd have no problem other than being ridiculed as a nut.

[tmckay2]

Depends on what time of the year, middle of the mountain winter some if those really deep remote areas are impassable by auto or even a major offroad jeep. You need a snowmobile or artic cat, but then you not only have to deal with a scenario but the unforgiving old man winter. I guess have multiple possible places depending on what and time of the year.

not really. you can walk most of it. all it takes is a pair of snow snoes and a smal sled. sure its a pain in the ass and would take a few days to get EVERYTHING to a site but so what, we are talking end of civilization type disasters here, youve got the time. my tent weighs 70 lbs. but on a sled in the snow, even uphill, its actually not that bad. i wouldn't travel 30 miles with it but ive gone a few miles and its not that bad. i could probably travel 5-7 miles a day with it which is far enough for temporary camp, especially in the winter. you don't have to go to that remote of an area in the winter, its the summer that you would want to get moving to farther out areas.

[Skully]

not really. you can walk most of it. all it takes is a pair of snow snoes and a smal sled. sure its a pain in the ass and would take a few days to get EVERYTHING to a site but so what, we are talking end of civilization type disasters here, youve got the time. my tent weighs 70 lbs. but on a sled in the snow, even uphill, its actually not that bad. i wouldn't travel 30 miles with it but ive gone a few miles and its not that bad. i could probably travel 5-7 miles a day with it which is far enough for temporary camp, especially in the winter. you don't have to go to that remote of an area in the winter, its the summer that you would want to get moving to farther out areas.

Couple adults or older teens if equipped and prepared, but with theme of this thread with family / kids under 10 would make it a risky task. Freezing temps etc I would worry then about dealing with sickness etc. A very hard task, I would rather try for remote rural nothing of interest to anyone else area.

I definitely would not want to be in this big city.

[Skully]

i have 6 kids, and number 7 is coming the end of next month. we will be bugging in. we have (including the new one) 6 kids, 7 and under. It would be too difficult to bug out. And we would only do that if absolutely necessary. Of course we dont live in town and we live about 25 miles to town. So, it will hopefully take the idiots a while to pillage their way out here.

So where do you live?


Make my way to you, you always need another gun handy right?

[tmckay2]

Couple adults or older teens if equipped and prepared, but with theme of this thread with family / kids under 10 would make it a risky task. Freezing temps etc I would worry then about dealing with sickness etc. A very hard task, I would rather try for remote rural nothing of interest to anyone else area.

I definitely would not want to be in this big city.

It's risky with kids no doubt. But I still believe if a real situation arose its safer than in town. Heck even infections would be a problem in town. My advice to anyone prepping is to prepare for both. The food, weapons and medical supplies would all be the same. If you've got the money I'd get a decent amount of food and antibiotics. Both of those would be hard to come by both in town and out. The freezing temps would scare me that much even with kids. If power is gone, which it would be, it'll be cold in town as well and that will make even more people pillage happy. With a stove ad endless supply of wood I don't see how that could go wrong. My fire starter is also endless.

[Skully]

...........My advice to anyone prepping is to prepare for both. .............

That is what I was saying have "Multiple plans", depending on the scenario or situation would warrant which disaster plan you would follow.

[SpikeMike]

My wife and I had yet another of those discussions last night. She's all for hunkering down and bugging-in. Which is all good and fine until you get lots of hungry people, injured people, or worse.... bad people (e.g. criminals and/or roving government security contractors i.e. Blackwater type folks with a FEMA mandate) running about.

Getting out of Littleton for us could be a major problem, especially if the roads were choked. I-25, I-70, US-285, etc. would be a nightmare of epic proportions as everyone and their mother will be leaving (most without a clue as to where or why they are going). Which brings into play having the knowledge of every little back road (paved or not) as alternates. Most maps do not have all of those roads listed and the only way to know about them is from topos or direct knowledge of having traveled them. Good routes include knowing every single old mining road/path and passes. Which means having a suitable 4x4 in good working condition with good tires and spares.

A practice I put into play for our vehicles are black-out lenses for all lights, with a manual switch for disabling the indicator lights. Less light means you're less noticed. A good pair of NVGs for night travel with lights out is huge (if you can afford them).

The problems of bugging-in for those of us in urban/suburban environments will depend on the level of disaster and type of disaster. The first 24 hrs is the great wait-and-see game. The second 24 hrs is the I-gotta-get-out-and-see time. People will have access to enough water and food over that 48 hour period. After that, it begins to get sketchy. People will start taking what they think they need. Then many will begin the panic of I got to leave and leave now. That's where the roads bog down even more. Arguments will ensue over gasoline, food, water, slow traffic, and so chaos begins with little order. What LEO and Fire/EMS services remain will be stressed and stretched. Locally and haphazardly implemented martial law will come into play. Turf will begin at some point to become established, neighborhood by neighborhood. Pretty dismal, eh? The truth of it all is that we are pack or herd animals and still have that tribal mentality in our genes. It is a means of survival and entirely instinct based.

Where will our Federal government be? At first, they will be sitting on their fat butts, two thumbs up where the sun does not shine. They will be trying to establish Command and Control Centers, region by region. Figuring out what resources they have to bring to bear and finding out they have a lot less than they thought or budgeted for. Deals will be made and rules of engagement will be set, do not expect the latter to be in the favor of John Q. Public.

Somewhere in a dark room will be some of them deciding who are the trouble-makers. In their infinite wisdom, most of their databases are stored in hardened networks of servers. They know a lot more about us than any of us would like them to know (perhaps not to the level the UK government goes to, but still...get the point?). They will know who the majority of gun-owners are, who the criminals are, and who belongs to a militia or other affiliation they do not like. Under Martial Law, they have the right to suspend the US Constitution, meaning they can come and take (not ask) your firearms. They can take you gasoline, your food, your water, even the clothes or other items without regard to your rights. They have the right to arrest you and hold you, or to even outright execute on the spot for failing to comply.

Bugging-in is nice if you're well protected, careful, and have the means and knowledge to maintain a very low profile. Bugging-out is an eventuality everyone must prepare for.

[hollohas]

but with theme of this thread with family / kids under 10 would make it a risky task. Freezing temps etc I would worry then about dealing with sickness etc.

Exactly. This is why prepping with small kids is a little more difficult for families with small children.

My kid is not yet 3 but she has been exposed to camping, etc. because I think that is important. But have you ever heard a toddler have a meltdown in the forest? No? Well, let me tell you, there is no doubt it can be heard for MILES. And with the hardships that come with bugging out and/or living in the woods as some have suggested, you can count on a few meltdowns.

Do you want every bad guy for miles hearing your location?

Having a working vehicle would make bugging out with kids easier. But what if you don't? Your supplies will likely go on your back in your pack. So no room to carry your kid in a kid backpack. So where do your kids go? Think your 2 year old can walk very far in a day? No way, no how. Expect to move VERY slowly. Do you put them in a wagon? A bike trailer? Do you even have a wagon or a bike w/ trailer? And again, can they be quiet if you have to hide to avoid danger as you're moving through town? Something to think about...

Is your kid a picky eater? Well he eat MRE's? Freezed dried lasagna? Better find out now.

Do you have any little toys or games you can pack for them? Moral is a big deal with kids. Perhaps a small little $1 magna doodle is all you need to help keep the kids somewhat happy. Maybe store/pack some little treats as well.

Can you carry clothes for your little one for all seasons? If they are a toddler, do you have anything in the next size up? Kids grow out of their clothes quickly. Shoes?

Above are all things I think about constantly now that I have a toddler. Do I have a solid answer for all of them? Nope. Some I still need to figure out.

We have plans for both bugging out and in. Bugging in is our main strategy. But I do realize that if things get bad quickly or last more than a week or so, we will be moving out. We have solid bug out plans and routes to reach family that is well established in remote areas. However, they are not currently the prepping type. We need to store more supplies at their location but currently we are focusing on building our stores at home. Once that's complete, we'll start on building our remote supplies. Priorities and one thing at a time...but all my plans must consider the toddler's perspective to even have a chance at being viable.

[hollohas]

I thought this little story fit in nice here...

My daughter was watching Handy Manny from my DVR this morning before school. Right after the cartoon, another cartoon came on that had a few minutes recorded on my DVR but I forgot the name. Anyway, it had two kids and a Mom. And get this, the Mom was making an emergency kit and letting the kids help. Then...dun, dun, dun...she showed them how to make Go Bags! They even called them "Go Bags". In a cartoon. On Disney. Awesome!

The Mom's go bag had all the stuff we talk about on here (minus the firearms) and the kids got little go bags with coloring books and a few toys.

I also saw a Sesame Street episode a while back that talked about preparedness. Again they actually used that term. Three Little Pigs were used to get the point across. The two little pigs that built out of straw and sticks kept saying, "Nothing bad will happen to US." And the one that built out of bricks said "You can never be too careful!" Well, we all know how that ended...

Kinda cool to see this type of thing in kids shows.