why we fight ?

[Mick-Boy]

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I keep going back because face shooting a jihadi is good clean fun (just make sure to tilt your head down so you don't get brain or skull on your oakleys).

[Ronin13]

Great points BG... but let me restate this for the hard of seeing: THERE IS NO OIL IN AFGHANISTAN. SA, unfortunately what you said is true- to an extent- because we don't and never will OWN the oil in Iraq... but because we liberated them from the evil Saddam (and I'm not being sarcastic here- the guy was about as bad as Hitler, he just didn't have the resources of the 3rd Reich) we should be entitled to some discounts and no-conditions trade agreements (not able to be canceled). The only thing Afghanistan has to do with oil is the conduit it provides to move oil [pipelines].

I'll say it again, and BG is very right on this- killing these cowards is always a good thing, their hatred is being spread and fostered in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt, Iran and the list goes on and on... they don't want to negotiate, they refuse to compromise, they can't live in peace and tolerance, and they are very pissed off. The only way to fix the problem is to kill them before they kill us. Plain and simple.
Kill 'em all, let God/Buddah/Allah/Jeebus/Odin/FSM/whoever sort them out.

[Bailey Guns]

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I keep going back because face shooting a jihadi is good clean fun (just make sure to tilt your head down so you don't get brain or skull on your oakleys).

This is the kind of attitude I want fighting this, or any, war.

[Bailey Guns]

On a side note:

Back in the early days of the war in Iraq, around fall of 2004, my youngest was a new TACP in the Air Force.

Being the proud father, I printed a very LARGE banner that was about 10' long and hung it on the front wall of my gun shop. The banner read:

My son can direct an Air Strike on your Honor Student!

Most everyone who saw it got a kick out of it because they knew me and my son and understood the joke. But one lady came in and, oh, my...I'm pretty sure her panties are still all twisted up inside you know what. She had a litter of kittens over it. She really got made when I laughed at her and told her to leave.

[mcantar18c]

If there's any one thing worth going to war over these days, it's oil. Period.

THIS.
If we aren't willing to go to war over oil, the life blood of our economy and our society... what the hell ARE we willing to go to war over?

However....

I've always supported the troops and the mission. That said, I believe we have passed the point of deminishing returns on our investment of lives and treasure in Afghanistan.
"The the place is a shitthole populated by shitheads and when we do leave the country will revert back to the way it's been for centuries." - I know quite a few people that have been over there and some that are still there, and there's not one that would disagree with that statement.
America can offer democracy, civilization, and material progress. If you prefer dictatorship, poverty, and barbarity, then there is nothing we can do for you. We might have been able to save Afghanistan from the Taliban, but we can’t save it from the Afghans.
And I say this as someone who will be there this time next year.

[OneGuy67]

We are in Iraq and Afghanistan because of oil. We are in the rest of the middle east because of oil.

No political and geographical stability in the middle east, less or no oil exported. The less oil, the higher the prices of everything petroleum based. The higher the gas, the tighter the economy. Got pretty fricken tight right after the oil companies decided to play the "let's see what the market can take as a price" game, didn't it. Still reeling from it too.

We are there because of oil, period. Does Rowanda or any of the other shit hole countries in Africa that have had a mass genocide within the last couple of years have oil? No. Are we there in-mass stopping the genocides? No.

If you don't think we are so heavily involved in SWA primarily because of oil, you are completely lost. In comparison, ethanol fuel is inefficient. But, some day, we might find it efficient enough for us to stop giving a shit about the middle east and we can stop paying money to the middle east and watch them de-evolve back into a beduin camel riding based society. Sooner would be better IMO.

Forgive me for disagreeing with you on this. As Ronin has pointed out, Afghanistan does not have any oil. Iraq has oil, but since the time we've been actively involved there, the oil we are supposed to be there for, isn't coming here. The cost per barrel continues to fluxuate higher and higher from the time of our invasion. If it was for oil, wouldn't some of that oil be coming here and the price of oil would decrease. In fact, most of the contracts the Iraqi government has gone into regarding oil aren't American companies.

So, using that premise that we invaded for oil, where the hell is the oil?

I truly think we invaded Iraq due to a vendetta on the part of Bush. Call it a personal vendetta if you will, as Saddam had issue with his dad. He was a small dictator in a small country who didn't have WMD's, who couldn't win a war with Iran, who was afraid to fight any other of their neighbors except Kuwait. Once we ousted him, we didn't stop. We ousted the military, who then became the insurgents and we've been trying to fix that mistake ever since.

I disagreed with our invasion, but once we were there and screwed things up, I felt and still feel it was our responsibility to fix what we screwed up. If you wish to call that nation building, then so be it. I call it American values. As Americans, we have a history of fixing, helping, assisting people we were involved in conflict with. Europe, Japan, Korea come to mind. Add Iraq to that list as well.

Just my $.02.

[SA Friday]

Afghanistan has been an epicenter for madrasa driven himbali sect sunni islam theology. You wanna kill the cancer, you gotta take the patient almost there too. In this case, one of the tumors feeding the spread is that worthless shit hole afghanistan.

It effects the entire geographical area. Can't ignore it. We have to turn it around if we can or we will be fighting its neighbors on both sides; iran and pakistan.

[Mick-Boy]

"The the place is a shitthole populated by shitheads and when we do leave the country will revert back to the way it's been for centuries."

That is a very true statement.

[mcantar18c]

I truly think we invaded Iraq due to a vendetta on the part of Bush. Call it a personal vendetta if you will, as Saddam had issue with his dad. He was a small dictator in a small country who didn't have WMD's, who couldn't win a war with Iran, who was afraid to fight any other of their neighbors except Kuwait. Once we ousted him, we didn't stop. We ousted the military, who then became the insurgents and we've been trying to fix that mistake ever since.

No matter the reasons we initially invaded for... Saddam DID have WMDs, COULD have won a war with Iran (or at least drawn one out to be very long and bloody), and WASN'T afraid to invade other countries or do anything really to further his regime.
And call me crazy but... if you take down the leader over a country, but leave a sizable military that supports said leader... it just might come back to bit you in the ass, dontchya think?

[Ronin13]

Afghanistan has been an epicenter for madrasa driven himbali sect sunni islam theology. You wanna kill the cancer, you gotta take the patient almost there too. In this case, one of the tumors feeding the spread is that worthless shit hole afghanistan.

It effects the entire geographical area. Can't ignore it. We have to turn it around if we can or we will be fighting its neighbors on both sides; iran and pakistan.

Again close- Afghanistan used to be a bustling paradise in Asia- in fact a lot of travel experts would say that Kabul was a diamond in the rough hidden among the hindu kush. That was until Mother Russia came in a fawked that all up. The radical Islamic views we're now so very familiar with (mostly the anti-western view) originated with the Wahabis in Saudi Arabia after oil was discovered in the 1920's. The Kingdom invited us over to help them build their oil empire and in exchange for free trade between our nations we offered military support. Hence why bin Laden hated us, when Iraq invaded Kuwait he offered his Mujahadeen warriors who "defeated" the Soviets (with CIA help) in Afghanistan to protect the kingdom. But they had a better offer, the US Military with over 15 countries in tow. He saw this as an affront to Islam (Satanic non-believers in the Holy Land- and worse they supported Israel), and that was where he drew the line and issued a Fatwa against us. Crock of shit though, because the only ones who can issue a Fatwa are Mufti- and bin Laden was not considered one at all.