why we fight ?

[OneGuy67]

We are in Iraq and Afghanistan because of oil. We are in the rest of the middle east because of oil.

No political and geographical stability in the middle east, less or no oil exported. The less oil, the higher the prices of everything petroleum based. The higher the gas, the tighter the economy. Got pretty fricken tight right after the oil companies decided to play the "let's see what the market can take as a price" game, didn't it. Still reeling from it too.

We are there because of oil, period. Does Rowanda or any of the other shit hole countries in Africa that have had a mass genocide within the last couple of years have oil? No. Are we there in-mass stopping the genocides? No.

If you don't think we are so heavily involved in SWA primarily because of oil, you are completely lost. In comparison, ethanol fuel is inefficient. But, some day, we might find it efficient enough for us to stop giving a shit about the middle east and we can stop paying money to the middle east and watch them de-evolve back into a beduin camel riding based society. Sooner would be better IMO.

Forgive me for disagreeing with you on this. As Ronin has pointed out, Afghanistan does not have any oil. Iraq has oil, but since the time we've been actively involved there, the oil we are supposed to be there for, isn't coming here. The cost per barrel continues to fluxuate higher and higher from the time of our invasion. If it was for oil, wouldn't some of that oil be coming here and the price of oil would decrease. In fact, most of the contracts the Iraqi government has gone into regarding oil aren't American companies.

So, using that premise that we invaded for oil, where the hell is the oil?

I truly think we invaded Iraq due to a vendetta on the part of Bush. Call it a personal vendetta if you will, as Saddam had issue with his dad. He was a small dictator in a small country who didn't have WMD's, who couldn't win a war with Iran, who was afraid to fight any other of their neighbors except Kuwait. Once we ousted him, we didn't stop. We ousted the military, who then became the insurgents and we've been trying to fix that mistake ever since.

I disagreed with our invasion, but once we were there and screwed things up, I felt and still feel it was our responsibility to fix what we screwed up. If you wish to call that nation building, then so be it. I call it American values. As Americans, we have a history of fixing, helping, assisting people we were involved in conflict with. Europe, Japan, Korea come to mind. Add Iraq to that list as well.

Just my $.02.

[mcantar18c]

I truly think we invaded Iraq due to a vendetta on the part of Bush. Call it a personal vendetta if you will, as Saddam had issue with his dad. He was a small dictator in a small country who didn't have WMD's, who couldn't win a war with Iran, who was afraid to fight any other of their neighbors except Kuwait. Once we ousted him, we didn't stop. We ousted the military, who then became the insurgents and we've been trying to fix that mistake ever since.

No matter the reasons we initially invaded for... Saddam DID have WMDs, COULD have won a war with Iran (or at least drawn one out to be very long and bloody), and WASN'T afraid to invade other countries or do anything really to further his regime.
And call me crazy but... if you take down the leader over a country, but leave a sizable military that supports said leader... it just might come back to bit you in the ass, dontchya think?

[OneGuy67]

No matter the reasons we initially invaded for... Saddam DID have WMDs, COULD have won a war with Iran (or at least drawn one out to be very long and bloody), and WASN'T afraid to invade other countries or do anything really to further his regime.
And call me crazy but... if you take down the leader over a country, but leave a sizable military that supports said leader... it just might come back to bit you in the ass, dontchya think?

Where were those WMD's? All reports indicate they did not, interviews with Saddam indicate he stated those things to bluff his enemies, nothing concrete has been found. Saddam didn't win a war with Iran; he fought one to a stale mate. There was no land gained by either side. He WAS afraid to go after other countries; he didn't invade Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, all of which have sizeable armies. He invaded Kuwait, a very small country with no military to speak of, to show power to his people. The military didn't truly support him, and many laid down their weapons, left their barracks, and plain old didn't want to fight when we rolled in.

[mcantar18c]

Where were those WMD's? All reports indicate they did not, interviews with Saddam indicate he stated those things to bluff his enemies, nothing concrete has been found. Saddam didn't win a war with Iran; he fought one to a stale mate. There was no land gained by either side. He WAS afraid to go after other countries; he didn't invade Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, all of which have sizeable armies. He invaded Kuwait, a very small country with no military to speak of, to show power to his people. The military didn't truly support him, and many laid down their weapons, left their barracks, and plain old didn't want to fight when we rolled in.

The reports you saw didn't say there were WMDs. Shockingly (sarcasm), the MSM didn't report them.
Entire Kurdish villages were wiped out with chemical weapons (Halabja Massacre, Anfal Genocide, etc.) by Saddam's regime. Used mustard gas, hydrogen cyanide, sarin, GA (volatile nerve agent), and VX (one of the deadliest chem weapons ever). The coalition troops found numerous NBC manufacturing facilities, including a mobile centrifuge for processing nuclear materials. Even the UN put out resolutions for Saddam's regime to give up his cache of WMDs and cease all further manufacturing, which, surprise, went unheeded.
Would the UN do that if they didn't have them?
How did he use chemical weapons to commit a genocide against the Kurds if he didn't have them?
Why did he have so many manufacturing facilities if he didn't use them?
Don't believe everything you hear from the MSM.

[Scanker19]

The reports you saw didn't say there were WMDs. Shockingly (sarcasm), the MSM didn't report them.
Entire Kurdish villages were wiped out with chemical weapons (Halabja Massacre, Anfal Genocide, etc.) by Saddam's regime. Used mustard gas, hydrogen cyanide, sarin, GA (volatile nerve agent), and VX (one of the deadliest chem weapons ever). The coalition troops found numerous NBC manufacturing facilities, including a mobile centrifuge for processing nuclear materials. Even the UN put out resolutions for Saddam's regime to give up his cache of WMDs and cease all further manufacturing, which, surprise, went unheeded.
Would the UN do that if they didn't have them?
How did he use chemical weapons to commit a genocide against the Kurds if he didn't have them?
Why did he have so many manufacturing facilities if he didn't use them?
Don't believe everything you hear from the MSM.

Why didn't they say we found them, the whole reason we went there was to find them. To lie? To keep us fighting for what. To cover a lie with a lie is even worse.

[OneGuy67]

Why didn't they say we found them, the whole reason we went there was to find them. To lie? To keep us fighting for what. To cover a lie with a lie is even worse.

I got to learn to read all the way through and multi-quote!

I agree with Jordan on this!

[Scanker19]

They had SAS, Seal, And other spooks at the Haditha Dam for a few weeks playing frogman etc.... I hope they never found any, I was swimming there.

It was cool to be approached by Seals or who ever they were, and have them ask like giddy kids to get a picture of your tank with them on it.

[OneGuy67]

The reports you saw didn't say there were WMDs. Shockingly (sarcasm), the MSM didn't report them.
Entire Kurdish villages were wiped out with chemical weapons (Halabja Massacre, Anfal Genocide, etc.) by Saddam's regime. Used mustard gas, hydrogen cyanide, sarin, GA (volatile nerve agent), and VX (one of the deadliest chem weapons ever). The coalition troops found numerous NBC manufacturing facilities, including a mobile centrifuge for processing nuclear materials. Even the UN put out resolutions for Saddam's regime to give up his cache of WMDs and cease all further manufacturing, which, surprise, went unheeded.
Would the UN do that if they didn't have them?
How did he use chemical weapons to commit a genocide against the Kurds if he didn't have them?
Why did he have so many manufacturing facilities if he didn't use them?
Don't believe everything you hear from the MSM.

Sorry, should have multi-quoted! See the above statement to attempt to answer your questions about the Kurds and the usage of chemical weapons against them. As for the items found, I can't say. I can tell you what I saw while I was there and what I learned through intel and there weren't any stockpiles found.

I don't believe the MSM; I believe what I heard, saw and experienced while in Iraq...

[Scanker19]

Lithium.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/wo...4minerals.html

[spyder]

Great points BG... but let me restate this for the hard of seeing: THERE IS NO OIL IN AFGHANISTAN....

Forgive me for disagreeing with you on this. As Ronin has pointed out, Afghanistan does not have any oil. Iraq has oil....

Well, wouldn't an ongoing war over in afganistan be a good reason to keep all of our soldiers there? I think so. It seems to keep the whole oil thing under the radar right? If we wanted to kill those pieces of shit and get it over with, we would have, plain and simple. Everyone in the military knows we have the technology, and the power to do so. So, why are we taking our time? Oil. If we killed em all and said, yep, no more threat. We wouldn't have any reason to be there would we?
These are proven reserves as of two years ago.


Canada had better not screw with us either... [lol]

Also, Iran is the fourth largest oil producer in the world after us. Everyone rather they admit it or not knows what we are there for (oil). They all know we are willing to invade over almost anything to get it, so, who over there is going to go and tell us where to stick it especially while we are over there? They are smart enough to know a big bully when they see one. They either get to give us part of their lunch, or, we will take it.