The "Jobs" plan

[tmleadr03]

Umm we don't believe in child labor sweat shops?

Why are those a bad thing?

[Byte Stryke]

Why are those a bad thing?

/ignored

[Bailey Guns]

It cracks me up that anyone expects the government to effect the economy in a significant manor. I don't care if its Obama, Bush, Clinton, or Reagan. When it comes down to it our country has a crappy economy because in the past 30 years companies found much cheaper ways to manufacture other places in the world. If we don't "make" anything here then how can we expect to employee people? You want to shoot some blame it has more to do with company's valuing their profit margin over any type of patriotism to this country.

The government can give them tax breaks and they will horde more money, then can attempt to increase taxes on the rich and they will just leave the country. Please enlighten me as to something the GOV can do to effect this?

If you don't think government can affect the economy significantly, you need to only read what you just wrote to change your mind. The government doesn't produce jobs, maybe, but it sure as hell can significantly affect the economy. Some examples:

• TARP - $850B wasted, basically
• Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac
• Huge corporate bailouts
• Monetizing debt
• Obamacare
• Predatory corporate tax rates that drives production, and jobs, overseas
• ad nauseum

Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. HERE'S a great primer on government spending and the economy:

[tmleadr03]

until we penalize companies for moving jobs outside of the country we will continue to go broke.

if you can make doodad here for $5 but choose to make offshore at 1$ we need to charge an extra $4 tarrif to remove the lure to move the job of making the doodad offshore.


argue/discuss/debate

Smoot-Hawley worked so well, we should do it again!!!

Better yet, lets make it better for the companies to work here rather then penalize them for moving. We have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Yup, if I have to fork over 40% of my profits to the .gov you better believe I want bailouts out of that. Fuck both those things. Lower the tax rate and no bailouts.

[tmleadr03]

/ignored

LOL ok. You need to look a bit closer at the problem of the sweat shops and do some logical thinking. But if you really think paying some of the highest wages to people in those areas and giving them a better living then they would have had with out those "sweat shops" is bad... ah well.

ETA: Are you for minimum wage as well?

[Bailey Guns]

1. Governments have a huge impact on economies.
2. How is it unpatriotic to move a business overseas if it's cheaper?
3. What business of yours is it what businesses do with their money?
4. What's wrong with leaving a country if the government of said country takes what you believe to be too much of your money?

and

Why does it cost $5 to make a widget here and only $1 to make it somewhere else?

Instead of penalizing businesses (which is why our economy sucks in the first place) we should incentivize them to stay here in the first place.

Get the government out of business, and unleash the free market.

Bingo! That's the winning solution right there.

The below is totally off the mark and it's part of the problem, not the solution:

until we penalize companies for moving jobs outside of the country we will continue to go broke.

if you can make doodad here for $5 but choose to make offshore at 1$ we need to charge an extra $4 tarrif to remove the lure to move the job of making the doodad offshore.


argue/discuss/debate

tmleadr03 nailed the answer to this one.

The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world at just a hair under 40%. 40 freakin percent, folks. You people are constantly harping on freedom. Then why would you penalize corporations for taking advantage of a better business climate in another country? Why not make it advantageous for companies to do business here? Why not make the US the most business friendly country in the world and take business/production away from other countries?

“United States companies are now in the position of trying to compete in the 21st century world economy with a 20th century tax system,” said Ho. “Dozens of countries around the world—including many of the United States’ closest trading partners—have realized that sky-high corporate tax rates are an economic dead end. Now more than ever, Americans want to see policies that will help create increased growth, more jobs, and higher standards of living – exactly the things that a lower and more streamlined corporate tax system can help achieve.”

Rest of the story HERE.

[Sharpienads]

1. Governments have a huge impact on economies.
Agreed
Agree to... um, agree.

2. How is it unpatriotic to move a business overseas if it's cheaper?
You expect U.S. government bailouts, U.S. government protections with no sense of obligation to the same.
Who said I expect bailouts? If a company fails, it should go through bankruptcy. Too big to fail is a load of BS. Businesses in foreign countries are subject to the host nation's laws. I still don't see how doing what is in your best interest or your company's is unpatriotic. And if doing whatever the government tells you or your business to do, or just accepting whatever happens, is unpatriotic, than I guess I am unpatriotic, too.

3. What business of yours is it what businesses do with their money?
None, But if they are going to fold, crash and die... they shouldn't ask for mine.
Agreed. And the government shouldn't give it to them.

4. What's wrong with leaving a country if the government of said country takes what you believe to be too much of your money?
If you are going to leave, leave completely. Renounce citizenship and GTFO.
I have no problem with that, but if your government has become hostile to a certain economic class, they would be in the wrong, not you for leaving.

capitalism isn't about win or you lose... if the company fucks up great, FAIL and Die.
Don't sit there telling me you are taking Jobs from Americans and move shit overseas but then expect free trade to bring the crap here and when it won't sell expect those same Americans to bail you out.

I agree. But again, why are businesses leaving in the first place?

Kinda like your wife fucking your best friend and asking you to wash the sheets afterwards.
not happening.

I'm not so much defending business as I am blaming government.

[Bailey Guns]

1. Governments have a huge impact on economies.
Agreed
2. How is it unpatriotic to move a business overseas if it's cheaper?
You expect U.S. government bailouts, U.S. government protections with no sense of obligation to the same.

3. What business of yours is it what businesses do with their money?
None, But if they are going to fold, crash and die... they shouldn't ask for mine.

4. What's wrong with leaving a country if the government of said country takes what you believe to be too much of your money?
If you are going to leave, leave completely. Renounce citizenship and GTFO.

capitalism isn't about win or you lose... if the company fucks up great, FAIL and Die.
Don't sit there telling me you are taking Jobs from Americans and move shit overseas but then expect free trade to bring the crap here and when it won't sell expect those same Americans to bail you out.

Kinda like your wife fucking your best friend and asking you to wash the sheets afterwards.
not happening.

Lot of FAIL in your logic here, Byte. Stop and think about what you're writing and how your views fit into our constitutional freedoms and privileges.

For the record, I've seen few people here - actually none that I can think of - arguing FOR bailouts and such. I sure as hell don't. I agree...conduct your business in a way that promotes growth, or fail. It's simple.

[Byte Stryke]

Businesses are leaving because they can beat a 9 year old kid into working 14 hours a day for 10 cents in an often deadly or dangerous environment and then import that same product into the country with no repercussions.
You think Thailand is offering any corporate bailouts?
you forget, I have seen these places.

I am all for companies doing what they want, don't get me wrong. but when your shit collapses do come running back to the same country you dumped for help.


as far as blame... its our fault, everyone, Government, Corporate and Citizenry.
everyone took advantage and we let our government do this to us.

We have to have higher corporate taxes to pay for Monica's dress, airforce one vacations and fat legislative expense accounts and lobbyists. Because you know its just to hard to make ends meet on 174K a year and a fat fucking expense account. We have to maximize profit margins even if it means moving the factory overseas and employing 10 year-olds so we don't have to give them PPE from the heavy metals/chemicals. Safety is not cost effective.

and yes, I am all for a minimum wage because I don't want to live with 40 relatives in a single room apartment and share a bag of rice for a month.

my point is that corruption at all levels is eating away at the base economy and the only ones that will survive is the corporate and political elite.

[Byte Stryke]

Lot of FAIL in your logic here, Byte. Stop and think about what you're writing and how your views fit into our constitutional freedoms and privileges.

For the record, I've seen few people here - actually none that I can think of - arguing FOR bailouts and such. I sure as hell don't. I agree...conduct your business in a way that promotes growth, or fail. It's simple.

so you are saying that when GM Ford and Chrysler moved shit out of the country because it was cheaper, their quality failed, sales dropped and then sat in congress begging money it was OK?

I didn't see Toyota or BMW asking for a handout...


someone ban me again... this place went to pot