Train!

[Atrain1]

So..... Who's down to take the pepsi challenge? I'll bring the steel and a laser range finder.

Is there going to be a guy with a AK47 shooting at us?

[Tweety Bird]

To answer your questions:
Have I ever been in a firefight?
No.
Have I reverted to my training 100% during encounters?
Not 100%. Parts, yes, but not all. But then, I don't see the actual "training moves" as the reason we train. The confidence in yourself and your abilities that training builds is what's important, and IMO its having that confidence that helps you the most.

So, no firefights. However I have been shot at, and after the initial "What the f*ck was that? Kind of sounded like a round whizzing by.... Is this really happening? Oh shit!" I was able to think clearly and do what I had to do (got the hell out of there, using cover and concealment... yes I know the difference... no training in doing so at the time, just seemed like the logical thing to do).
I've been in fights where weapons were drawn on me and handled it well. One of those times was in a brawl at my old business... he had a weapon, a broken bottle in his hand, and I reacted. I elbowed him hard in the trachea, which in theory would have crushed it and cut off the airway, and he went down. It was a good 20 min before the cops and ambulances arrived. Don't know what happened to him, but I don't imagine the odds were in his favor. I don't think he lived, and I have no remorse about this... nor do I see why I should.
I've also drawn weapons in encounters, never initiated though (reactive vs. proactive). 3 times with a gun, 4 with a knife. All but one the presence of a weapon with the clear intent to use it and not showing them fear was enough for them to back down without going further. That one time was with a knife, though I didn't have any training with a blade at the time and don't think I did any unfixable damage. I slashed, he ran away (its mostly stabs that kill, which I didn't know at the time). All the times I've drawn I was strangely calm, my thoughts were clear, and I was sure of my intentions.

This is why I say mindset is the most important thing. Here's how I see it:
If I draw a weapon, I'm going to kill you. If I wasn't going to kill you, I wouldn't have drawn. By drawing my weapon, you're already dead... I've already "killed" you in my mind, all that's left is to go through the motions physically. Having "done it" mentally, the physical part becomes easy. The other part of that is if I saw any other way to stop the situation I wouldn't have drawn, therefore using that weapon is the only way out, and thus I am justified in using it.
If I had the mindset of "Oh shit I just drew a weapon. I don't want to kill this man. Oh crap I may have to kill this man. Can I do it? How will I live with myself? blah blah blah" I don't think I would be able to handle situations the way I have.
Mindset is everything.

I'm confused.

How do you elbow someone in the trachea, wait around for 20 minutes for the flashing lights to arrive, and not know whether the guy lived or not? Seems to me, the authorities would be spending a lot of time with you whether he survived or not, especially if it was at your business.

I'm raising the BS flag but will freely admit that since I wasn't there, I don't have all the facts. But the story doesn't seem plausible to me.

And you don't draw a weapon to kill somebody; you draw it to stop the threat. PERIOD. While that may mean taking a life, it also may not. Talk like automatically taking the life of someone if you draw your pistol will get you in lots of trouble. I suspect a jury wouldn't be very kind to you if they knew you said something like that, even if the shoot was justified.

That's why I said earlier that some of these posts scare me.

Tough talk is easy.

[Great-Kazoo]

So..... Who's down to take the pepsi challenge? I'll bring the steel and a laser range finder.

I've already asked this same quest a few pages ago. I want money on it to make it worth my while. No takers on that either. Anyone up in NOCO up for this??

[Atrain1]

I've already asked this same quest a few pages ago. I want money on it to make it worth my while. No takers on that either. Anyone up in NOCO up for this??

You are missing the whole point, it has nothing to do with hitting a stationary target.

[Great-Kazoo]

You are missing the whole point, it has nothing to do with hitting a stationary target.

I am aware of that, i requested the shooter (for those that can) run back from the target 100 yds do some PE. Back towards 2 targets when told to turn and engage said target 2 rounds down range, with designated target called out once the shooter is facing down range. I know for a fact under duress i'm kissing dirt versus being a hero UNLESS i or a loved one is the target. Under stress i doubt with bullets flying i or most folks could successfully engage a target much less another person at distance with a handgun. I would give it a go ONLY if my confidence level is up. The missed rounds again get you a potential homicide charge

[Atrain1]

I am aware of that, i requested the shooter (for those that can) run back from the target 100 yds do some PE. Back towards 2 targets when told to turn and engage said target 2 rounds down range, with designated target called out once the shooter is facing down range. I know for a fact under duress i'm kissing dirt versus being a hero UNLESS i or a loved one is the target. Under stress i doubt with bullets flying i or most folks could successfully engage a target much less another person at distance with a handgun. I would give it a go ONLY if my confidence level is up. The missed rounds again get you a potential homicide charge

I am @ work so I cant get into it right now, but I will when I get home.

[rocktot]

Some believe handguns are for 10yds only

Even at 10 Yards you have to hit him and no one else. Plus Adrenaline, plus you just saw someone get shot. I think I'd do something, but why did no one in the PC house have a gun? Are there cars behind him, other shops? On a moving target?

65 Yards, not here, unless he is gunning for me. Then, I would be worried about ammo, reload, ownership. Maybe 30 under duress with lots of luck. Maniac with a gun, he would need to be total incapacitated. Thats like 3 GOOD shots.

[mcantar18c]

I'm confused.

How do you elbow someone in the trachea, wait around for 20 minutes for the flashing lights to arrive, and not know whether the guy lived or not? Seems to me, the authorities would be spending a lot of time with you whether he survived or not, especially if it was at your business.

I'm raising the BS flag but will freely admit that since I wasn't there, I don't have all the facts. But the story doesn't seem plausible to me.

And you don't draw a weapon to kill somebody; you draw it to stop the threat. PERIOD. While that may mean taking a life, it also may not. Talk like automatically taking the life of someone if you draw your pistol will get you in lots of trouble. I suspect a jury wouldn't be very kind to you if they knew you said something like that, even if the shoot was justified.

That's why I said earlier that some of these posts scare me.

Tough talk is easy.

It was a big (60+ people) chaotic brawl. A female on "our side" got caught up in the middle of everything, I watched some fuck punch her in the head and she went down. The only thing on my mind was to get to here and get her out of there. I'm pushing my way through everything, and there's guy holding the neck of a broken bottle directly in my way looking right at me. I reacted (actually, this could be considered reverting to my training, as we'd been working heavily on elbows that week in Krav), and he grabbed his throat and went down. Kept pushing my way to the girl, dragged her into the corner and stood over her absorbing blows until a buddy helped get us back into the door and into the back room, where I spent the rest of the time getting her fixed up. How the guys on the "other side" fared after I had interacted with them was none of my concern.
Of course I had to give a statement to the police, but I didn't sit there going "Yeah I crushed that guys trachea, might have broken that one's jaw, might wanna check this one for a concussion..." just gave a basic overview of how things went down and asked if there was anything I could help with.
I don't care what happened to the guy, and I don't see any reason why I should or why it should bother me. He had a weapon in his hand and would have used it, it was me or him and I got to go home to my girlfriend that night. Not to mention that the girl I was after had heart issues and wouldn't have made it had she been left laying there unconscious being kicked and whatnot, according to the EMTs.

I guess you draw your weapon to intimidate people then? My goal is to stop the threat, and I have plenty of methods in my toolbox available to me to do so. If I've exercised every other option available to me then I'm left with no choice but to kill in order to stop the threat, and if I have a weapon I will use it to do so. If I didn't have to... if there was any other way... I wouldn't have drawn my weapon, be it a gun, knife, or anything else. If I do draw a weapon, its because killing is required. If they happen to back down at the sight of that weapon, great, but I'm not drawing it to scare them away.
To put it simply...
If I didn't have to kill, I wouldn't have drawn a weapon.
If I draw a weapon, its because killing is my only option left.

I've already asked this same quest a few pages ago. I want money on it to make it worth my while. No takers on that either. Anyone up in NOCO up for this??

Uhh.....

With all the tough or as some see it MANdatory actions be taken talk, No One has taken me up on the 2 targets and betting drill, very disappointed. Surely someone would have stepped up instead of sitting on the sidelines without doing anything.
$10 per round 2 rounds max. i'll up it to $20 per round 2 rounds max. lets put some money where our bragging rights go.

I agreed to it...
While it would be much easier with the setup I'm getting soon, we don't need to wait till then.

[jhood001]

I guess you draw your weapon to intimidate people then?

You said you have drawn a firearm 3 times. I'm assuming then that you have 3 human deaths on your conscience?

[MrPrena]

I think this thread and a "keyboard commando" thread has some kinda connection.

http://co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45917