Arm the teachers!

[Ice Pirate]

Well, after reading Badshot's lively dissertation and the rest of the responces here, I'll chime in with my two cents.

First, Badshot does have some real valid points. However I think he's missing the point behind the initial post. That the move is to ALLOW teachers to carry if they wish. That means it will be up to the Teacher, not the school or taxpayers, to provide the training and material.

The point here is that if Teachers are ALLOWED to carry concealed in the school, then any sick demented POS that wants to molest a bunch of young girls before killing himself, is going to have to contend with the possibility that there very well may be a heavily armed adult who could, without notice, put a stop to his plans. Even if there are no armed teachers in a particular school, the bad guy won't know this for certain until he's already commited.

Also, if this is allowed, then unrulely students, (the Gangbanger variety, and the demented kids like the Harris's and Klebold's), will also be faced with this uncertainty. Again, "a well armed society is a polite society."

I do think though that if teachers are allowed to do this, they should be required to show documentation of training to a point that would allow them to carry safely and, God forbid, to employ the weapon in the safest manner possible.

Finally, I'd like to make the case for "Less than Leathal" responces. What would be the harm with providing Tazers, or anyother standoff non-leathal weapon on the market. The problem with bats, yardsticks, stun guns and billy clubs is that you have to be way too close.

Additionally, as some others have elluded to, we should first start securing the schools better. Having doors locked from the outside while still providing free egress in case of an emergency. Replace glass windows with unbreakable glass or plastic. Alarms on doors and windows that would notify the front office when opened.

This is not an easy situation to deal with. The "Open Society" that most of us have grown up enjoying, has come to an end. There are a whole raft of sick and twisted people out here that we must protect ourselves and our families from. That protection and safety ain't cheap and it's sometimes a bit hard to swallow, but it is necessary.

[Artyboy]

Well, after reading Badshot's lively dissertation and the rest of the responces here, I'll chime in with my two cents.

First, Badshot does have some real valid points. However I think he's missing the point behind the initial post. That the move is to ALLOW teachers to carry if they wish. That means it will be up to the Teacher, not the school or taxpayers, to provide the training and material.

The point here is that if Teachers are ALLOWED to carry concealed in the school, then any sick demented POS that wants to molest a bunch of young girls before killing himself, is going to have to contend with the possibility that there very well may be a heavily armed adult who could, without notice, put a stop to his plans. Even if there are no armed teachers in a particular school, the bad guy won't know this for certain until he's already commited.

Also, if this is allowed, then unrulely students, (the Gangbanger variety, and the demented kids like the Harris's and Klebold's), will also be faced with this uncertainty. Again, "a well armed society is a polite society."

I do think though that if teachers are allowed to do this, they should be required to show documentation of training to a point that would allow them to carry safely and, God forbid, to employ the weapon in the safest manner possible.

Finally, I'd like to make the case for "Less than Leathal" responces. What would be the harm with providing Tazers, or anyother standoff non-leathal weapon on the market. The problem with bats, yardsticks, stun guns and billy clubs is that you have to be way too close.

Additionally, as some others have elluded to, we should first start securing the schools better. Having doors locked from the outside while still providing free egress in case of an emergency. Replace glass windows with unbreakable glass or plastic. Alarms on doors and windows that would notify the front office when opened.

This is not an easy situation to deal with. The "Open Society" that most of us have grown up enjoying, has come to an end. There are a whole raft of sick and twisted people out here that we must protect ourselves and our families from. That protection and safety ain't cheap and it's sometimes a bit hard to swallow, but it is necessary.

We're talking about a handful of dead kids. Of course it's a tragedy. It's hardly an epidemic, though. The media is just making a HUGE deal about it just like they do everything else that they know will get people afraid. Public fear gets ratings. Spending money on armed security, metal detectors at every entrance, special types of glass and everything else that would help make our schools "safer" is just unnecessary. If you feel that your kids are at that much of a risk then home school them. I think that arming the teachers that choose to arm themselves is as far as we need to go with this. Just make sure that we hold those teachers to a higher standard when they're on school grounds.

[Atrain]

A teacher's job is to teach. Leave armed security to professionals.

[HunterCO]

A teacher's job is to teach. Leave armed security to professionals.

That is exactly what we are doing, You like the outcome? [poke]

[BadShot]

No Hunter, that isn't what is being done. So come on.. It might be the case in a lot of the bigger city schools, but the rurual ones, the ones where most of this has been happening of late, just don't think about it and I would venture a guess that they don't think about it because of the cost.

So lets take a peek at the existing environment. As Gman pointed out, some people already keep weapons in their cars on school grounds. I'm fine with that, the law as it stands permits us to retain a weapon in our vehicles on school grounds so long as they are secured. Perhaps we will see more of the teachers who own weapons taking those weapons with them in their cars.

One point that I saw made today was that teachers in Israel have had weapons in the classroom for 25 years. Interesting point.. different society on so many levels.

As to home schooling my children if I don't feel they are safe in public schools, well that's a cop out and tantimount to giving up. Not to mention that my children have a right to that education. They, like the rest of us have a right to be safe as well.

Then again the US AG Alazar(pretty sure that's the dudes name) this morning on CNN/Fox News stated very clearly that they are not going to seek or endorse additional gun laws because of these recent incidents. Rather they are again looking to more ridgedly enforce the existing laws.

That was the good news.

[Atrain]

You missed the point. The problem is with security, and it's not the responsibility of the teachers to provide it. A teacher's focus needs to be on providing the best education possible to children. If we need armed security at schools to keep our kids safe, then the schools need to hire professionals to do that.

[Scott]

You missed the point. The problem is with security, and it's not the responsibility of the teachers to provide it. A teacher's focus needs to be on providing the best education possible to children. If we need armed security at schools to keep our kids safe, then the schools need to hire professionals to do that.

As much as I agree with you that the teachers need to focus on educating America's youth, I still feel that those teachers that would like to carry on school grounds while teaching should be allowed to do so.

[Atrain]

Fair enough. Assuming the teachers carrying are well trained...I also feel that bad guys need to be stopped before they can get inside the school where an exchange of gunfire can happen around kids. Teachers in classrooms carrying guns are not going to be able to do that so it doesn't make it a viable solution to me. A shootout in a classroom full of kids will likely end up in trajedy...especially when the bad guy entering the classroom already has the weapon drawn and the teacher is still holding a piece of chalk.

[Scott]

Fair enough. Assuming the teachers carrying are well trained...I also feel that bad guys need to be stopped before they can get inside the school where an exchange of gunfire can happen around kids. Teachers in classrooms carrying guns are not going to be able to do that so it doesn't make it a viable solution to me. A shootout in a classroom full of kids will likely end up in trajedy...especially when the bad guy entering the classroom already has the weapon drawn and the teacher is still holding a piece of chalk.

My thought of it is this: We can't/shouldn't be giving up on school security. I wouldn't want my mother (a retired teacher) being expected to be the schools first line of defense. As someone stated earlier, I agree that security is more of a deterent than a solution, but I think that deterent is needed to keep the shit bags within the student body in line. I'm all for arming the guards as well (I think that anyone that is legally allowed to carry should be allowed to do so).

I also think that schools need to have a warning system. A Denver school that my mother was an administrator at put something simple together for this and it worked very well. Every room had a remote radio in it, as well as all the administrators and security guards. At the first sign of a disturbance, the teachers would know immediately and could act accordingly. My mom's school was shot up numerous times and one couldn't count the number of times an unruley family would cause a problem. This cuts down the likelyhood of the scenario that you posed with the bg in opening the door with a drawn firearm and the teacher with a piece of chalk in his/her hand still.

In my opinion, if a teacher has done what is necessary to obtain a CCW, then they should be allowed to CCW in class. Additional training wouldn't be bad idea, though.

[Atrain]

BTW, I am enjoying this thread. This subject has been coming up a lot with friends and family.

I couldn't disagree more with this comment:

In my opinion, if a teacher has done what is necessary to obtain a CCW, then they should be allowed to CCW in class.

People who have never shot a firearm get CCW's all the time. There was a guy in my class who had never held a gun. It made me cringe watching him wave that unloaded Glock around.

Inexperienced teachers shooting around kids can be just as dangerous to them as the BG.