American Drug War Doc.

[Ronin13]

Watched a documentary this weekend- and yes it did have a bit of liberal view and stated how both Bush's and Reagan were evil (although interesting evidence presented about shady drug funds to help aid the Contras), but the point that hit home the hardest was the stark difference between the US and Holland with the treatment of drugs- Holland has decriminalized use of drugs so non-violent drug users don't go to prison for possession or use. I think this would help our country greatly, but the prison-for-profit deal that's growing right now is probably a great stop for that to ever happen. Just wanted your guys' input. Do you think that decriminalizing non-violent drug offenses (we're talking users not sellers here) would help unclog our legal system and reduce the overpopulation in our jails? And maybe, just maybe, get Sheriff Arpaio to STFU for a bit. I think our "war on drugs" that was started by Nixon in '71 has been the longest, most expensive mistake we've ever made. $101M/yr in 1973, over $22B/yr today, that's a lot of fat we could trim, and let's not forget how much we'd save in prison costs if we didn't have over 1.3M inmates that were convicted on non-violent drug offenses.

Here's the IMDB link:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1033467/
It's on Netflix instant.

[OneGuy67]

As a LEO, I do get tired of all the rhetoric of how many people are in prison for possession or use of illegal drugs. Do you really believe people are serving prison sentences in Colorado for simple possession? No, they are not. Those arrested for possession alone, are sentenced to probation and substance abuse counseling. Usually, and this is how the information is skewed, people plead to possession that were caught with substantial quantities, selling, or manufacturing and their plea bargain is to possession. I emphasize PRISON verses JAIL. There may be some jail time in some cases, but it is limited. There is a large difference between PRISON and JAIL and Ronin discusses the PRIVATE PRISON industry.

I won't comment on the war on drugs, as there are too many who feel it was a wasted attempt and I don't want to get into a long, drawn out discussion. That being said, do you feel there has not been a dent at all made in the supply system, although I would agree there has been no dent in the demand. Of all the tons of drugs seized annually, how much more of a problem would there be if they had not been seized?

I disagree with the use of private prisons and feel that is a entity of the government where private enterprise should not be allowed. However, that door was opened a long time ago and there are private companies running prisons in Colorado, running transport companies that shuttle prisoners state to state and prison to prison at the request of local, county and state agencies. Can the private company do it cheaper, more efficient than the government? I don't know. Does it save us, the taxpayer money? I don't know that either.

[Ronin13]

While all valid points, the issue is the criminalization of users still exists. Instead of punishment for addiction we should help, not hurt- probation, plus charges of misdemeanor possession hurt the ones who seek help, get off their drug of choice and clean up their act, but still hit walls and closed doors because of the drug charge on their record.

Also, there is ample evidence out there that since the drug war began the flow of illegal narcotics into America has increased over the last 35 years, the quality of drugs has gone up, and the cost has been driven down. I have a friend who was on probation because he was found- in a friends house- with pot and mushrooms- both things that grow in the ground mind you, and shortly after the hearing was fired from his job. So what does he do now? Sells pot because it pays way better than flipping burgers. Prohibition on something that has no attributed deaths relating to direct use (we won't talk about driving or other hazardous activities), and is not even 10% as addictive as cigarettes sounds like absolute silliness to me. And numerous scientific studies show that MMJ does help with glaucoma and cancer patients where no other treatment (legally) can help them cope and sustain themselves exists.

[trlcavscout]

I just wish I was a half way house owning judge


I do know people who steal to buy pot that don't do other drugs, a relative by marriage that's spent a few tours in the grey bar motel. I agree a doobie shouldn't result in jail time but I don't want the crap sold at walmart either. Drug wars are not the worst thing our tax dollars get spent on.

[Ak47Ar15Glock26]

i think the war on drugs is a joke. our govt cant even keep dope out of our own prisons! drugs are here to stay, like it or not. people are going to get high even if its illegal. instead of throwing people in jail for non violent crimes, we should put that money into voluntary rehab centers (like Amsterdam). it will let people respect our govt more if they approach drugs as drugs, instead of violent criminals. yes, i know some drugs does cause violence, but what we are doing to stop drug USE is stupid. Ron Paul has a great plan. all the drug dealers/cartel will have to find a new line of work. at least legalize weed! alcohol is our biggest problem, not weed, and its legal. dumb.

[Ronin13]

i think the war on drugs is a joke. our govt cant even keep dope out of our own prisons! drugs are here to stay, like it or not. people are going to get high even if its illegal. instead of throwing people in jail for non violent crimes, we should put that money into voluntary rehab centers (like Amsterdam). it will let people respect our govt more if they approach drugs as drugs, instead of violent criminals. yes, i know some drugs does cause violence, but what we are doing to stop drug USE is stupid. Ron Paul has a great plan. all the drug dealers/cartel will have to find a new line of work. at least legalize weed! alcohol is our biggest problem, not weed, and its legal. dumb.

Well put. Holland has a great idea on the approach to drugs and if you look at the statistics of use there compared to here it's shocking. They "tolerate" weed and mushroom use, and since drugs won't get you locked up or even fined they kinda got bored with it and have probably the lowest use of meth of any civilized nation in the world.

[OneGuy67]

While all valid points, the issue is the criminalization of users still exists. Instead of punishment for addiction we should help, not hurt- probation, plus charges of misdemeanor possession hurt the ones who seek help, get off their drug of choice and clean up their act, but still hit walls and closed doors because of the drug charge on their record.

Also, there is ample evidence out there that since the drug war began the flow of illegal narcotics into America has increased over the last 35 years, the quality of drugs has gone up, and the cost has been driven down. I have a friend who was on probation because he was found- in a friends house- with pot and mushrooms- both things that grow in the ground mind you, and shortly after the hearing was fired from his job. So what does he do now? Sells pot because it pays way better than flipping burgers. Prohibition on something that has no attributed deaths relating to direct use (we won't talk about driving or other hazardous activities), and is not even 10% as addictive as cigarettes sounds like absolute silliness to me. And numerous scientific studies show that MMJ does help with glaucoma and cancer patients where no other treatment (legally) can help them cope and sustain themselves exists.

There's no doubt the flow of drugs has increased, the quality has increased and the price has stayed the same for the past 20 years that I've been a cop. Why? The demand. The demand has driven all this. To give up and throw in the towell isn't going to stop or even slow the demand at all, and in fact, would probably increase the demand. The argument that people would try a drug and quit due to boredom as it wasn't illegal is naive.

I really hate the argument that "is it natural" and grows in the ground and shouldn't be illegal is idiotic. Coca leaves grow in the ground, are chewed (and processed into cocaine for the lazy snorting Americans), Poppies are grown in the ground and the poppy buds are cut and the opiate removed (it can be processed later for refined morphine, heroin, etc) and used, Khat is grown in the ground and chewed. Peyote as well.

The argument that marijuana is only 10% as addictive as cigarettes is crap and the statistics are based upon who is doing the survey or case study and their slant or bias. The pro marijuana people want to make people believe it is a harmless plant that doesn't cause any societal issues.

There have been studies that show the active ingredient THC has some assistance in limited use cases, but the pro marijuana people do not want to admit that Marinol is as good, if not better for those types of cases, than smoking it as the delivery system is better. They will argue that the pill form of Marinol (a synthetic THC) doesn't stay down long enough for the drugs to take effect, but don't want to address the Marinol patch, which is even a faster form of delivery.

The biggest issue with the drug issue is, the side effects of the drug culture, the drug addiction, the drug purchasing. The fact that a lot of property crime is directly related to drug use and abuse. A lot of crime is conducted in order to purchase drugs, due to addiction. The legalization isn't going to change that; they are still going to want to buy drugs and if you don't have money, you will do what it takes to get money to buy your drugs.

[Delfuego]

Cocaine is cheaper and more readily available now than it was when Reagan was president name me something else that is???

Synthetic TCH is manufactured by massive drug conglomerates, people can grow marajuana in there house or back yard (almost free of cost), sounds like Big Business bullshit to me. Pfizer wants to be your pusher...

War on drugs is a joke... I big, expensive, civil rights destroying joke...

[Ronin13]

Cocaine is cheaper and more readily available now than it was when Reagan was president name me something else that is???

Synthetic TCH is manufactured by massive drug conglomerates, people can grow marajuana in there house or back yard (almost free of cost), sounds like Big Business bullshit to me. Pfizer wants to be your pusher...

War on drugs is a joke... I big, expensive, civil rights destroying joke...

Well said! That was another point made by the doc, pfizer and other pharma companies are some of the biggest members of the "Partnership for a drug free America." I hate that we probably will never convince OneGuy that walking around in a circle is not a good way to get from point A to Point B (IE: The drug war) and that maybe an alternative is a good call right now. I've seen the studies- because all scientists are biased right?- and synthetic THC actually is not healthy and can have some pretty bad side effects. On top of that, the potency and effectiveness of synth. THC is about 20% by comparison to cannabis.

Notice he didn't say anything about it's health hazards (with the exception of smoking) because not one person, ever, in the history of the world, has died from use of marijuana. Ever. It's a fact that cannot be disputed. But, if we look at the figures: in 2006 17,000 people died from illegal opiates, 24,000 people died from amphetamines; 80,000 died from abuse of prescription drugs, over 100,000 deaths from alcohol, and 450,000 deaths related to tobacco use.... so really, which is more dangerous? If a guy decides to use a drug in his own home, he should be free to do so. It's not my life so if he wants to throw it away and shoot up heroin then let him- drugs only hurt the ones who use, let's work instead on education and rehabilitation instead of prosecution and the perpetuation of cops being overzealous and having to try and make a big drug bust every time they stop someone (not all are like this, but I've been on a ride along with a Jeffco K9 unit who did a search on every traffic stop looking for drugs).

[OneGuy67]

Cocaine is cheaper and more readily available now than it was when Reagan was president name me something else that is???

Synthetic TCH is manufactured by massive drug conglomerates, people can grow marajuana in there house or back yard (almost free of cost), sounds like Big Business bullshit to me. Pfizer wants to be your pusher...

War on drugs is a joke... I big, expensive, civil rights destroying joke...

Frankly, all drugs are about the same in price as they have been for about 20 years now, as I previously stated. I haven't seen an increase in street prices we pay for drugs in that time. Sometimes the price is dependent upon location and availability, but not too out of the norm.

Yes, synthetic THC is made by a drug company. Natural THC can be grown. So what? The argument that "it is natural" that Ronin was posing, was a false argument, and the same argument that all the pro-marijuana people, the pro-legalization people want to put out there at nauseum to support their agenda. "It's for the cancer patients", so please vote yes on Amendment 20...